Chuck Yates Needs A Job

0:20 Alright so let's start off and let's just face up to the audits were the two biggest idiots I mean are we luddites how are we not able it took US like twenty minutes to get on this I'm usually not

0:33 this luddite but I guess it's Friday Valentine's Day something screwy happening so perhaps that could be what explains it I I'm usually pretty good at getting this stuff set up although they won't let

0:47 me touch the podcasting equipment so if you can if you come into his dinner we do a podcast in there we'll have people set US up and all so alright interesting fact number one how did we meet do you

1:01 Remember I believe it was through oil field rando or Braxton McCoy it was all filled rando and who I think is the most interesting person I've ever met on Twitter

1:15 Yes he is very fascinating and before he went incognito I've had, I know who he is in real life too. I've interacted with him socially, social media. Don't know if I've met him in person, but we

1:26 used to write for a similar publication, or the same publication years ago, but I understand why he does anonymity now for very valid reasons. But he is so thorough with all this exposing green

1:38 stuff, but also a waste in front of government too. Well, and I always tell my friends 'cause a lot of my friends are fans of his I'm like, dude literally turns a wrench for the living, for the

1:50 living. This is not a PhD out of Harvard who is a public policy analyst. I mean, literally he's an oilfield dude.

2:01 He is, and he's giving a good name to the workers there. And I think more and more people are starting to see, even when he does it through his pseudo name on social media But I think people are

2:15 seeing that, telling people to learn to code is not

2:18 a really smart decision. Particularly not him. Be careful what you wish for leftist.

2:25 So other kind of random fact is I went to college with your governor. With a young kid? With young kid. Yeah. Yeah. Governor young kid went to rice. I went to rice. He played basketball. I

2:40 want to say he was a senior when I was a freshman And I was better friends with his roommate, Andy Gilchrist. But yeah, totally new Glenn and people always ask about it. I'm like, what you see is

2:57 what you get with that guy. I mean, he really is a boy scout. I mean, he was that way back in college. That's amazing. No, I've had a few interactions with him. I actually finally got to meet

3:07 him and his wife, the first lady, who are lovely, lovely folks at one of their Christmas gatherings last year And you could tell that he's really down to earth, you think this guy has made so much

3:18 money. And he's like one of the most humble, wealthy people you've ever met. I know that kind of sounds oxymoronic, but very down to earth, even for all the success he has had in his financial

3:28 endeavors. People like him here in Virginia. He's done a fairly good job, even though he's faced certain obstacles from his legislature. But yeah, no, what you see is what you get. And that's

3:38 why a lot of people have talked about him having an even greater role in politics beyond. And he's actually really smart about energy, too. So he's pretty competent all across the board But he's

3:47 especially impressive, I think, on energy, too. And he doesn't really get much credit for that. Well, when he was at Carlisle, they bought 50 of natural gas partners, the energy private equity

4:01 firm. And the point people negotiating that deal were Glenn Yunken for Carlisle and Ken Hirsch for NGP. And so he had to learn energy given the amount of money he paid for that.

4:18 He really wants to make Virginia an energy hub too. And he's really been big about, I would say some nuclear projects, of course, but there was one big one with, I forget what it is. There's

4:28 been so many moving parts and updates here, but something unique to nuclear, not like the big Texas deal that they're talking about, but something that I think relating to nuclear fusion, if I'm

4:38 not mistaken, but he's really gone bullish on that. And hopefully it'll continue regardless of he's, once he leaves office, 'cause there's only one consecutive term But yeah, I guess going to

4:49 Texas, perhaps, cemented his knowledge and interest in energy. And people who think of Virginia as an energy producing state, but we do have a lot of energy infrastructure here. We have several

4:59 nuclear reactors. Natural gas is really big here. It's our biggest electricity generation. Coal used to be really big. It might make a comeback with all these AI data centers and all those

5:09 deposits that we have in Southwest Virginia. And renewables don't really do well here. They've tried to do solar. not really working so well. No onshore wind, they've done offshore wind, which

5:20 I'm kind of critical of even as an appointee of his, but I'm in a committee that doesn't really have to do anything with energy. And you can always have disagreements with the governor who appoints

5:28 you to different boards. But no, he's pretty savvy all across the board and energy too. Yeah, no, yeah, he's a really sharp data. I don't know if this is true, so I'm trafficking in rumors,

5:43 but he was, I believe, the 18th employee at Carlisle. Right out of Rice, he went to work for First Boston. You're so young that you know him as Credit Suisse.

5:54 He went to work there, and then he jumped to Carlisle. And I heard the story on him was, he wasn't a particularly good investor, but he was really good at knowing how a money management firm

6:07 worked. And so he was kind of the inside guy, And that's why I wound up being chief operating officer and eventually being. CEO of of Carlisle kind of replaced Rubenstein when Rubenstein, you know,

6:22 became the chairman or whatever. But anyway, yeah, fascinating guy. So do this. Like, tell me your story. What do you do? I've followed you for, I don't know, two or three years on, on

6:35 Twitter. And it's always interesting what you're doing, but I have no idea what it is. Happy to dismiss if I absolutely well I have not worked in the energy industry, sadly. I wish I did. I wish

6:47 there had been more opportunity, so I can make up for not having had direct immersion in the industry by at least being an advocate or an ally, so to speak, and meeting people in the industry. But

6:57 I've long been fascinated by the natural resources conversation. I'm a sportswoman. I go hunting and fishing. I started to fish. I went to national parks, and I think that was my first entryway

7:07 into these issues because even outside of fishing in the national parks, there was always energy kind of lurking. I came from California, born and raised there. My parents are immigrants from the

7:17 former Soviet Union. And I had a understanding about energy and kind of its real world applications, even beyond the production and consumption side, 'cause my dad being in construction always had

7:29 to deal with crazy regulations as it came to environmental green building codes and standards. And so he kind of clued me into that. And as I got older, and I would say more well-versed on these

7:40 issues, I took an interest in the policy side of things, not only from kind of the conservation side, but also from the direct application use. I started to see a lot of overlap between these two

7:51 interests. The true conservation is not these crazy environmentals who want to stop any, any and all energy production. But and people who hunt and fish and so much overlap between the two

8:01 industries, a lot of my friends who hunt and fish worked somehow in oil and gas or nuclear or some sort of other energy adjacent industry and vice versa. And I saw that there's actually a lot more

8:11 in common between these two interests areas than disagreements. And so I was like, how do you kind of marry the two of them? And so I started to do more writing, kind of highlighting this

8:23 intersection between the two, saying that you can have both sentiments and you can have both kind of perspectives and it doesn't go at odds with one another. You could support smart development and

8:34 also smart conservation practices, no extreme versus the other. And then as I started my toes in policy more, especially with the job I have and with video storytelling projects, I started to be

8:46 really, really interested in again, kind of deconstructing and demystifying misconceptions about oil and gas, good reliable energy sources that are often vilified. And I was tired of being gaslit

8:60 by environmentalists who said, well, if you like these people in oil and gas, you want to harm the planet and the environment. And I was like, this is a tired trope that is recycled so frequently

9:11 on and on and on. I heard this in college. I had to keep my views quiet because I went to a state school in California and they were pushing the Clinton Global Initiative and I didn't think I had a

9:21 well-formulated voice at the time, but as I got into my mid-20s, late-20s, now early-30s, soon approaching my mid-30s, I feel more comfortable now sharing my perspective, but I've had the luxury

9:33 of meeting people in the industry, learning from them what goes into things. I've had a few site visits. I need to do a few more site visits to become more familiar with the mechanics and

9:42 technology, but I've seen a fracking site, so I know that fracking is not as harmful as a lot of people make it out to be. I have met a lot of people in oil and gas, met with them, kind of in the

9:52 Houston, southeastern portion of Texas. I was promised a site visit to oil rigs, but it hasn't happened. COVID kind of stifled that potential. Happy to deliver. Anytime you come, give us a

10:06 heads up. Yeah, so I think to kind of round it out, my family background, Because we always had heard that, you know, certain energy. was bad, like with Chernobyl. I never felt like I

10:18 couldn't like nuclear energy, but there was always this kind of lurking feeling. People would say, well, how could you like nuclear energy? Your family came from the Soviet Union, 500 kilometers

10:28 away from the epicenter. They were already in the States, actually, a few months before Chernobyl's accident occurred. And kind of seeing California go way, way, way crazy on energy. It's the

10:40 land of Edward Dohini, who helped bring a gold rush of energy. So I kind of remembered the

10:48 background that I grew up. And Edward Dohini was omnipresent. I would see the oil derricks when I would go up 405 freeway to Los Angeles.

10:58 There was a state beach that I would go to have bonfires with friends named in his honor. So energy was kind of omnipresent for me. And now I try to kind of bring what I would say honed and learned

11:11 And I still have to learn a lot, of course. ever claimed to be an expert and I want experts like you, those who worked in the industry to educate me because that's what honest reporters and media

11:20 analysts and policy experts do. We need to lean in on the experts who have the actual world experience. So I feel like I'm in a position now with the conversation changing on energy, I would say in

11:30 a positive direction, away from net zero, away from intermittency. It's important to have people like myself who have platforms who reach people who are not necessarily educated on these energy

11:42 issues to bring them out to the forefront. So I hope I'm doing somewhat of a decent job of that, but I could always, you know, learn more and lean more. The, uh, no, I think you do a great job

11:54 talking about this thing. And the thing I love on how you got to energy was hunting and fishing. I mean, in terms of the greatest conservationists on the planet, they're all oil and gas folks. I

12:07 mean, they're the.

12:13 The Venn diagram there is literally two circles on top of each other.

12:16 And I don't think oil and gaskets any credit for that in terms of looking out for the environment. The other big problem I have when we have these discussions is it's hard to take someone seriously

12:30 unless they start the conversation with, hey, your life expectancy doubles once you start burning hydrocarbons versus dung and wood for heat and cooking. I mean, 'cause that's just a fact. And

12:50 there's never anything in this life that's perfect. Everything's a water balloon, you push here, it pops out, but it's all trade-offs. And no one will talk in terms of trade-offs, it's absolute

13:02 and they lecture us and then they go get in their SUV and drive to their private plane and fly to the next spot. It's just, yeah, come on, guys. So what's your actual job? My actual job, I

13:17 would say my primary job today is leading independent women's forum, Center for Energy and Conservation. So that's what my primary focus is. And on the side, I still do a lot of freelance

13:27 journalism, either through writing or podcasting. So I have a video series called Conservation Nation. We're gonna be renaming it a little bit because someone came to us and was like, We have that

13:36 name and we have a copyright So I'm like, Oh gosh, we've been using it for several years. So it's gonna get a little bit of a rebrand, but still stay focused. So I really love the storytelling

13:45 stuff too. And I love to marry that with public policy. So fighting the public policy battles, trying to translate these complex energy questions into small or digestible, understandable, let's

13:57 say blog posts or op-eds. We tried, in our organization does a lot outside of energy, we've done a lot to make sure that the integrity of women protected and in many regards. and including even in

14:08 energy as well. But our organization has existed for 30 years. We've really jumped into the energy space in the last few years because we have a lot of questions from our supporters and followers

14:18 asking, I don't know what this policy means. I don't know what it means when oil and gas leases are suspended or not renewed or not opened. I LNG an what know don't export terminal does. What is

14:29 nuclear? It's so complex, I'm told that it's dangerous. So we try to kind of level set fears about energy and debunk any misconceptions and try to make it fun in the process too. So I feel like

14:40 I'm in a unique position to do that. I have excellent fellows. My staff and colleagues, fellow staffers and colleagues are really helpful in broadening our message. And we hold no bars. Like we

14:51 will not only go after the crazy climate activist, but sometimes even kind of wobbly Republicans too who buy into this intermittency and kind of net zero light policy. So nothing is safe for us. We

15:02 try to be consistent because we want to have a consistent energy philosophy. and then we also talk it onto some of the lands issues that I have specialty in from my experience working in the outdoor

15:13 industry as well so we we try to marry that but I think energy shouldn't be complex and understandable and as you mentioned energy is integral to all facets of life the derivatives we can't live

15:23 without so it's important to hone that too because if you stop the production side of it it also trickles down to the products that we enjoy and like you said that we enjoy first world luxuries and

15:34 conveniences with and without that without oil and gas we would be a lot worse off

15:39 though that's a that's wild so publishing papers throwing events tell me more about what the the group does are y'all actually lobbying officially we do we have a C four side where I will weigh in on

15:54 legislation positively negatively we haven't really done model legislation but we largely where we can't do model legislation we sign onto coalition letters in efforts to oppose good or oppose bad

16:07 bills support good pieces of legislation I think now that we have an administration that's a little more favorable to our interests we're going to go on the offensive more and try to encourage them to

16:17 pursue rulemaking that can be codified permanently and then nudging congress to codify these changes permanently so you don't see this switch back and forth between administrations if you're to get

16:28 someone down the road and for years who is like biden and wants to do net zero so Oregon to be we we envision our role I would say the next four years or the next two years realistically depending

16:38 upon how congress is going to be in two years to kind of help influence the administration although they seem to be on the right track I I've loved the posturing that they've cut out and published

16:50 energy abundance reliability security and other secretaries relating to energy and environmental issues have copied that posturing and have said we're not going to be subtracting we're going to be

17:00 adding and adding is good not only for business for National security but even for the environment and so we want to kind of help supplement the efforts but also stand out in our own unique way and

17:10 largely try to appeal to women who may have questions about all these different energy sources I would like I said on the nuclear front like women are the most hesitant to to like it but we start to

17:21 see kind of a conversion there and then I feel also on the conventional side of things for energy women who are like rabid environmentalists still think that relying on fossil fuels is bad and they

17:33 have bought into intermittent solar and wind and like have said well we need these projects it's so good for the environment but anytime you research these projects I've investigated a handful of

17:42 projects out west a couple in Idaho and Wyoming and it's not environmentally friendly what They're proposing in that energy that they claim that it's going to produce all goes to blue states from

17:52 these red states where they're such a you know setting up shop or attempting to set up shop so women still kind of need I wouldn't say in educating they need to be kind of exposed to more view And so

18:05 we're trying to help do that. Men understand this. Women sometimes are still like, oh, no, no, this is so bad. And it's terrible. Or they do it because they're contrarian. And we don't want

18:16 them to fall into contrarianism. We want them to understand how energy is made, what powers their houses, what powers their small businesses, what helps them succeed, and even hating fossil fuels.

18:28 Because they're using technology, which is made from byproducts and all that too, and minerals as well So trying to get women clued into energy is a daunting task, but I like a challenge, and

18:40 that's what I'm hoping to do. OK, I got three suggestions for you, because I want to play in this. This will be great. So we had a panel on nukes down here at Digital Wildcatters. Texas now has

18:52 a trade association for nuclear power. They hosted it. They put me on the panel. I have no idea why And they came to me and they're like, Okay Chuck, you know. how do we how do we make nukes

19:07 more favorable I was like I've thought long and hard about this we get taylor swift to start dating nuclear energy and let's have little let's have little swifty nukes or something and you know

19:22 everybody laughed at that like you just did but the the serious side of that point is we need a protagonist we need a hero and if you think about it we've had all of these nuclear submarines for what

19:37 sixty seventy years without an incident they have defended the world from the Soviet Union from China go get a good look in nuclear submarine captain and make him mister nuclear and Maybe we Maybe we

19:54 get him some fabio like hair or something and that's how we win the women over what do you think Yeah as a heterosexual woman. I agree that could that could work for sure. I didn't think of it like

20:06 that, but but certainly a handsome man who speaks cogently and intelligently about nuclear can certainly appeal to women in that respect. But I would say even those the women who look to sympathetic

20:19 female archetypes and characters, you're you're not wrong, like Taylor Swift is one. I'm not the biggest fan of her not because of anything that I think there are other better musical artists, but

20:27 she does have a lot of clout and weight. And I wonder if any of the stadiums she played in in Europe, especially, were powered by nuclear. I think the one in Paris, she had several stops here.

20:38 It had to be powered by nuclear power. So I wonder like why they didn't advertise that more. She doesn't really steep into the environmental issues. But you know, some someone has sympathetic as

20:47 her shirt. Someone who might start to be more out there, you probably have heard of nuclear engineer Grace Stanky. She used to be Miss America a few years ago. Yeah, I have heard of a.

21:00 Yeah, we'll throw her out there for the men just to make sure we don't lose that vote. 'Cause the other thing, and I think you hit the nail on the head right there, I mean, nuclear energy is so

21:12 easy, the French can do it. And one of the things we did on the BDE podcast last year, 'cause my girlfriend's British, and she used to read me the riot act about, Y'all keep talking about Europe.

21:24 Europe is not a mono block It is 30 different countries, blah, blah, blah, blah. So we actually, each week we would break down the energy usage and the energy issues for each different country.

21:38 And one of the things

21:55 I never appreciated is the UK and Germany could literally go off the rails with all their solar and wind type stuff, all the renewables, because France is a big huge battery with all their nuclear

21:56 energy I mean, at any given point, France is excellent. warning thirty percent of their electrical production to the rest of Europe and so you have this big nuclear battery sitting there in the

22:10 middle of Europe that supports at All I mean maybe we go get a really romantic French guy we we my Dear you love of the new suite the cheese or drink the wine but not necessarily be a French guy it

22:26 could be a nice looking if we're going by Aesthetics a nice looking European man who can speak very romantically as you said not just French Guys but there are other European men I'll I'll I'll I'll

22:37 let you handle that you know I'm in touch with My my Feminine side and very comfortable in my Masculinity but I'll let you Pick the model but he has to know things about nuclear cause it's not just to

22:49 be a pretty face you have to be smart to Iowa that might Scratch Europe

22:56 we we can get an American to play that role so No, that's cool.

23:03 That's cool, you're doing that stuff. How do folks help with that? I mean, people watching this. Yeah, they can go to

23:13 IWForgCEC. Follow me on social media. That's always a good thing. Sharing any of our research and papers, I did a whole paper on energy security where I touched on this, which kind of goes into

23:25 this abundance mindset. We're now seeing being catalyzed by this new administration So we have papers, we have different blogs and videos. And I think we're going to start to do more video

23:36 storytelling. And I should be doing some more interviews with people in the industry. That's a goal of mine. We're still kind of in the process of formulating. How do we do that? We're right now

23:46 responding to the first 100 days. So where is our place going to be with engaging Congress and the agency? So that's kind of top of mind for us. But if they just follow me and connect with me, I

23:57 frequently post about what we're doing. and I try to also highlight kind of real world applicants like the McCrone Tweet I I kind of like quote tweeted that to like I will even go beyond what I do

24:07 for work and say like oh this is an interesting application to energy policy check this out or if it's something bonkers I'll mock it so so just as I think through Me as a Funnel I could be helpful in

24:18 that respect an island to all that we do at My Center as well and also try to find some interesting tizen and and I know you've talked at length about the land man series So I I enjoy that show very

24:29 much and I've appreciated your series something that is great to have that perspective far far away we had so much fun doing that and literally what what happened on that is I called matt to Gates a

24:43 mo miller and was like Hey Guys Let's do this okay let's record tomorrow morning at ten at nine forty five they're like dude we totally need boring on this so we call them We said Hey We're recording

24:57 in fifteen minutes he's like I Haven't watched the first episode and we were like we'll start start you've got fifteen minutes ADS anyway he starts watching it and if you listen to that first episode

25:09 we did this kind of crazy you can kinda hear the episode in the back because he's listening to it while while he's target we did our best to Gotta Edit out the the bat the the the the background but

25:23 Yeah that was that was a lot of fun now I will say I think they were pretty based I mean you know Ib did I the the the It's really Windy on the Moral High Ground I mean that's some great stuff in

25:41 there and I know it played it played pretty well in Texas with a bit of Oh that's over simple you know that's over simple you know that's not how it actually works how to play in the rest of the

25:55 country

25:57 people loved that show they ate it up here on the East Coast especially those who were kind of removed from the industry my friends in Pennsylvania who are in oil and gas were like this is interesting

26:07 it is very different here in our neck of the woods not as wild as Texas but they were at least very encouraged to see that some positivity was coming out of Hollywood and I know Taylor Sheridan I

26:18 don't know him personally but I understand his thinking where he likes to kind of explore these under appreciated narratives and go beyond like what people have said because he's a pretty smart guy

26:28 and he understands that oil and gas is very integral to Texas' economy and also the United States' standing in terms of energy production and so he's very clued in on that and wanted to showcase that

26:39 like not everything is bad or Hollywood greatly misunderstands what this industry doesn't the Little Kernels of of wisdom to kind of aggravate the the climate activists was great or just to to

26:51 showcase the inconsistencies with green energy was but I loved it I was like this is speaking my language this is wonderful like the lines that Billy Bob Thornton dished out were hilarious but also

27:02 very poignant and so to have someone like that do that would change the culture I think with people accepting oil and gas nuclear and and smart energy technologies and and really shift the mindset

27:16 away from what people have been told they have to accept they have to be questioning of fracking they're told fracking causes earthquakes they have to not like oil and gas because they're told it's

27:25 bad for the environment or they have to be afraid of nuclear because of Chernobyl and three mile island and one other incident otherwise it's been a very safe industry throughout it's existence in the

27:36 near over half century that nuclear has been there so to have this kind of pop culture intersection with energy is really good for our interests and helps us on the policy side too so I'm very

27:48 encouraged by that because people sometimes you know what they say politics is downstream from culture vice versa So if if you can change pop culture you can change politics and I think that's what

27:58 we're seeing now so the show did help I think even with it's kind of hyperbolic you know kind of you know exchanges and and all that and of course you need a show to have some raunchy stuff even if

28:10 it's a little you know kind of out there at times it keeps people interested cause just talking about oil and gas and and the job site doesn't do anything so you have to add a little spice in the

28:17 spice you know kept people interested in the program so I I Think it does a good job with selling reliable energy especially maligned industry such as oil and gas So I love the Show I Can't wait for

28:28 the second season Yeah so Jon Hamm Bed You Think Monty died he had to have died right because Jon Hamm's got a new show coming up to how that's such a Bummer I have found an email address for Taylor

28:42 and I sent him an email saying that I'd love for a for money or tommy within character to come on the podcast or or or to come to My y D D C Roast I do Charity Roasty Cheer and Ah You know totally

28:59 shoot a scene their eyes have Jeff Ross come in and EM see it and maybe like you know Monty or Tommy could have been the man of the hour and the rose we shoot the same I have not gotten an email back

29:11 needless to say but Taylor if You're Listening I it's a legit offer so Yeah now I think it I think it's going to be good I think the key to it and we've talked a lot about it around here is to

29:25 ultimately change people's minds change heart and minds you Gotta connect on an emotional level I mean we can throw out all the facts and figures and stuff we want but nobody cares about about a bunch

29:38 of Geeky engineers throwing out facts and figures it doesn't work you know you got yet Tommy after he saves his son and beat somebody up talking about how good energy is might connect So it takes

29:54 something like that and I hope the second season can match the excitement and fun of the first. And I think it will because what now Andy Garcia is going to be part of it as he wants to be friends

30:05 with Tommy. We now we now found the farm out partner financing partner on on that deal. I think we've we've got that and we we kept talking you know, Demi Moore had nothing until the the series

30:21 finale and say what you want. I mean, she is a really good actress. She just won the Golden Globe for the movie she was in. So hopefully we see a lot more of her. I'm excited about that. Yeah.

30:33 Her character should hopefully be developed a little bit more in the second season. And I tried to say that in such a way that it did not come off as lustful and my girlfriend will read me the right

30:44 act for for Demi You got to understand every old guy my age remembers the movie strip. in 1996. I mean, that was a game changer. You're way too young to remember that. I was five when that movie

30:58 came out to put it into context. Yeah, fair, fair, fair enough. So you were, you were being born. I was graduating from college, but yeah, no, that was, I mean, that was the biggest

31:10 cultural event of the year. I mean, we lined up just to go see Demi Moore flash everyone. It was great Well, now she's getting her due as an actor, right? Exactly. In the substance. I've heard,

31:24 I haven't seen that movie. I've heard some, my friends have said, do not watch it. You won't like it. So maybe I won't watch it, but I've heard she does great in it. I haven't, I haven't

31:34 watched it yet. I've heard, I've heard it's weird and I've heard the last five minutes are just holy cow. So I don't, I don't know what happened, but you know, I've got a plane trip to London

31:45 coming up. I'll download it for the iPod iPod. We'll see what's happening. Well, you were very, very cool to come on. This was fun. Yeah, it's very impromptu. And I like that you were

31:57 challenging me to like think outside the box with my responses. And I like that things are not scripted. So I can sound a lot more intelligent, but I kind of like things free-flowing and going with

32:07 the flow. Well, you know, everything's done relative in life and by comparison. So getting on a podcast with me, you're already gonna look really, really smart and add together So this is a lot

32:20 of fun. Get to Houston, we'll get you a tour of a drilling rig. We'll do that, we'll record in the studio. And anytime you're shooting something, going out on site or something, drag me along

32:39 one time. I would love to go do that. We've been doing a lot here recently, kind of around digital wild cudders, what we call kind of gonzo journalism We went to NAPE and we. The North American

32:51 prospect Expo we kind of shot some stuff and got some cool footage we went with Brian Sheffield Australia shot all about his beatles basin play there and so we've been having a lot of fun doing that

33:04 so he had dragged me along till he can't stand me anymore and then send me home now that sounds like a plan I I went to Houston a lot a few years ago I'm due to come back hopefully work will bring me

33:15 to Houston at some point but no would love to connect in person and record something live and and have you tag along for any of these adventures it's it's fun to join you on this format check thank

33:26 you for the EU Maybe we do a sit down with the Governor let's Go See if Mr Jan Kennel sit down with US will fireside Chat Yeah if you come to DC well they will do that or will fireside chat with well

33:40 brando one of the two that would be fun