Chuck Yates Needs A Job

0:21 So turning the ringer off before a podcast, what I have found is, I'll get a phone call, it goes straight to voicemail, I didn't hear it, it has made my life so much better. But I just text back,

0:35 sorry I missed it, I was recording. Yeah. All right, we have to start off with a beef, I hate to start off with a beef We were rockin' and rollin' at Rice University, athletic departments on the

0:50 rise, doing great things, and you nasty horn frogs from up in Fort Worth came and stole my athletic director. Yes. You all got crystal content from us. Ah, I gotcha, well and I will have to say,

1:03 I am both an owl and a horn frog. So I went and got my MBA at Rice, but did my undergrad and my master's at TCU So yes, our sports group, where they're headed now, new athletic director. We'll

1:18 see kind of where this goes, but super exciting times on the TCU front. That stadium's cool. It was great. I mean, they redid that. Again, I went to TCU as Mountain West. So we were not in the

1:31 same stadium. We weren't in the same league. We were doing well and playing, you know, great teams, but so glad now to see that the program's progressed and it's brought a ton of attention to TCU.

1:45 Again, we're only at about 10, 000 students and Division One athletics. And then, hey, did you hear the Girls' Sand Volleyball National Champions? So TCU is getting on the map, both on the

1:58 football side, but also on the volleyball side. We've got really strong athletes. It's so cool. So I argued that for years, 'cause I grew up as a rice person. Grandfather went to rice, mom,

2:08 dad, uncle, great aunt. two of my three brothers, both sister-in-law's ex-wife. The whole thing. We've always gone to rice. I've always been this rice martyr when it comes to athletics. And

2:22 I've always argued that it actually does bring a lot of spotlight to the university. You know who basically cut their acceptance rate in half, which is one

2:36 of the metrics she used to grade a college, right, lower the acceptance rate, quote unquote the better. Yeah. Vandy did by beating Alabama this year. There you go. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? I

2:47 don't know what the stats were again before I joined 'cause it's only

2:52 been seven months. So I'm back on the TCU side coming from industry, but I would say we had, I think if I understand well from transfer, Boshini, when I heard last fall, We had 24, 000

3:06 applicants. for this starting class in August and only 10. So we're at 2, 400 that got accepted. Wow. So super tough to your point and the sports. The TCEs, the safety school. And it's not.

3:23 And so that's what's really cool about the undergraduate programs and where we sit in the business school. We got, I mean, there are some incredibly smart kiddos and their resume is coming in out

3:35 of high school into university, the fact they even have a resume, right? I mean, we didn't have a resume. I mean, that worked in a hour wash. Exactly, like it was babysitting. It was, you

3:46 know, working at the pool in the summer or something like that. And now it's, I mean, these are really cool students that are coming in. And the things that they're able to accomplish now versus,

3:56 I mean, going through 20 years, you know, little over 20 years ago is night and day difference. So I've got this guy that helps, 'cause I've got three daughters And I've got this guy that's a. a

4:07 private college counselor hopes get the kids into school. And the first thing he always tells my kids in each one of the intro meetings is, hey, whatever you do, don't listen to your parents when

4:21 it comes to college. 'Cause their information is 30, 35 years dated, stuff changes, I'm the resource for that. Just whatever you do, don't listen to mom and dad. And I'm always like,

4:36 that's fair. Yeah, and I think that's a, it's really interesting, especially now with how things are changing, right? The digital and the data age, just like doing this. This wasn't a thing.

4:45 Right. Like no one did this. You didn't learn about what's going on in industry or different facets of things without social media. We didn't have social media. And so I think now too, what TC is

4:56 really good about is because it's still small, you have that one-on-one connection. You get to build those personal relationships and you get to come on campus to see that footprint. And that's

5:07 what's very cool to be a part of.

5:10 You've got a lot of different outlets and opportunities, but it's not a 50, 000 student population. I mean, we're not gonna compete against the tech and the AM and all of that. That's what makes

5:24 TCU so special. And Fort Worth, I mean, in general. Fort Worth is so much better than Dallas. I lived in Dallas for a year. If I had figured out how to live in Fort Worth and work in Dallas, I

5:35 might still be up there Yeah. Real quick, okay, 'cause I wanna dive into the Institute and hear all about it, but before we do that, where did you come from to get to TCU? Yeah, great question.

5:46 So definitely not a path I would have ever imagined. So if we talk about, from a student perspective, I'm a Yankee from Ohio, played volleyball, got to TCU. Whereabouts in Ohio? Just outside of

5:59 Columbus, Worthington. Okay. So that's where, born and raised, and then drove my 95 Jeep Wrangler. No AC to Texas for 17 hours and said, Why not? So came on campus in '04 as pre-med. That's

6:16 not where I obviously ended up. So go figure. My second year at TCU, I took rocks for jocks, the geology course, as my extra lab science and fell in love. And so sophomore year, I kind of was

6:31 like, I don't like sitting the bench for volleyball, let's be honest, walked on And I said, maybe this isn't for me. And so when the geology route leaned into it and said, let's see where this

6:43 goes, no one from my family, an oil and gas, and actually first generation college grad. So I was like, why not? Let's see. And so we went that route, started to switch my major my sophomore

6:57 year, going into my junior year, and then got - So how was it going through college, never getting asked out on a date. because the neurogeologists were just scared to death of you. Well, that's,

7:09 yes, absolutely. And I was that

7:15 one. I'm a lot of geologist friends, so I'm waiting for the emails now to be there. Yes, exactly. No, and the khaki on khaki was a lot. Now, if you had a beer in your hand and buy a campfire,

7:24 you're in the right space. Okay. But if you wanted to go anywhere else, maybe not so appealing. And so no great guys, actually my class, when I came through, we were fairly small because that

7:37 was so early 2000s before the, it was when the Barnett Shale was really getting off the ground. But the geology program at that time was, I mean, 10 to 15 students. Now, a couple of years after

7:49 that, there was 70, 80, you know, in the program, Energy Club was 400 plus students because it was happening in their backyard. So people could see it. The topic never changed. The classes,

8:02 the professors, I mean, I'm back on campus now and my professors that taught me my freshman year are still in the program. Dr. Busby, Dr. Hansen, Dr. Helga, I mean, they're all still there

8:14 and it's great. But those basic topics that you need as any geoscientists to get into industry, you still need today. Like that doesn't change. You need to understand fluids. You need to

8:24 understand the rocks. And now we're taking those rocks to the next level, like mineral extraction. Who would have thought we would have been focused on uranium and lithium, raw materials. That's

8:36 from your basic geology courses in undergraduate programs that you get taught these things. It's a disservice that we don't have more students going into it because everyone just thinks petroleum.

8:49 However, there's so many different use cases and understanding the raw materials is really critical. And we don't have enough going into these domains to really figure out these next challenges So

9:01 it's something, again, coming back. that we need to talk about more. It's not just from a petroleum perspective and oil like a gas perspective. So yeah, the program's great. It's still there.

9:14 Did my masters as well. But through that, again, you need to find a source of income. So I started waiting tables at Silver Fox Steakhouse down the street when I was like, Well, this volleyball

9:24 thing's not gonna pan out. And so with that, my entry into petroleum was I waited on table with a JP Morgan board member and his two sons were going to TCU and he put me aside and said, Hey, you

9:43 don't seem like a career server. Like, what are you doing? I said, Well, I'm going to TCU. I just switched my major to geology and have no idea what I wanna do when I grow up. But I like the

9:53 domain, like the topic. He goes, Hey, I'm on the board of JP Morgan, but also we are managing a company called Plains Exploration.

10:03 out of Houston and they are doing their first internship, geology internship program this summer. We'd love to see if maybe that's a fit. So after that, God is card, Alan Bookwalter. And God is

10:16 card and sent them a note. He told me who to reach out to with again, a very drafted, horrible looking CV compared to the students that I see now. I'm like, wow, I mean, you guys have come a

10:28 long way.

10:31 And anyways, next thing I knew a couple months later, they flew me down in the rest of this history. I got to spend a summer here in Houston, lived out in Katie, did the commute before I-10 was

10:41 10 lanes.

10:43 And my morning started at 545 and I don't think I've ever lost that momentum. And so that's what kick started my, or opened my eyes to what geology could really do for our community and how fun a

10:60 space and industry it is It's great. two really good plain stories. So we were the, when I was at Caney Anderson, we were the largest shareholder of plain resources back in the day, and

11:15 eventually we split plain's resources from Plains All-American, the pipeline company, brought Jim Flores, Endorun, PXP. So, and I've told this story before, so listeners are gonna be like,

11:29 whatever, move on Chuck, but it's such a good story So, we were in a board meeting and it was Cane, and I'd been at Cane maybe about a year, and NCAP was a co-shareholder, so they were in there,

11:44 the whole Plains board is there, and Jim Flores is up circling the table, and we're talking about some deal. I can't even remember what the deal was, but anyway, I asked the single stupidest

11:57 question I've ever asked in my life,

12:02 the second I was asking it, that it was that stupid. And I said all that and just kind of cringed 'cause I realized how stupid it was. And Jim Flores goes, Jump, stop right there. And I thought

12:15 he was just gonna let me have it. Yeah. Call me out. He goes, I know exactly what you're doing. You ask

12:22 this and then you're gonna ask me thisand then you're gonna ask me this and thisand that rabbit hole. I went down that rabbit hole too That is the key element here. Here's how I ultimately got

12:34 comfortable with this question and I see exactly where you're going. I got comfortable with it, but that's what you're gonna have to do. Get comfortable with that like I am and then you'll wanna do

12:43 the steal. And everyone's like, Oh, great question. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and all that. Jim looked across the table at me and wait. He knew he bailed me out.

12:52 See, yeah. There's just good people. Well, good people He also knew he, if he needed my firstborn child, he could have him. It was, he saved ya. Yeah, he totally saved me on that one. And

13:08 then my other great Plains Resources, or Plains Exploration story is I was buying a house from Paul Van Wagenen, who was CEO of Pogo. Okay. And crazy story. Which they bought in what, oh, seven?

13:27 When did they buy Pogo? Yeah, it was in '07. Oh, seven, yeah, okay.

13:32 'Cause the crazy story surrounding all that is, Paul and I basically had a handshake deal in the house for about 10 months. I'd been badgering him, hey, when you saw that house, let me know.

13:44 Let's not get a real estate person involved, but save each other six percent. And so anyway, we had this handshake and his house over in River Oaks kept getting delayed and he kept calling, I am

13:56 so sorry, Chuck, and I can look, we're good, don't worry about it And so just can't we. kind of became friends. So we show up at closing and we're all, this is still when you showed up, you

14:09 saw and you know. It was an all docu-sign, yeah. Papers all across the conference room table. And something happened on my insurance. And so it took about 20 minutes to sort it through. So Paul

14:20 and I are just sitting there talking. And Paul said, Yeah, it's my day of signing documents today. And I was like, Oh, really? And he said, Yeah, I was down actually at Hugh Litke's old

14:31 office. And I went, Oh my God, planes just bought Pogo. You know, I figured it out. And I was like, I was like going, Obviously don't trade any stock on that information. And I didn't let

14:38 Paul knew that I figured it out.

14:49 But anyway, the following Monday was the announcement. I've been announced. Yeah, that planes bought Pogo. Well, that's the summer I interned with them. That's why I know it was a seven.

14:58 'Cause there was a lot of that material that was going around and. And I'm gonna guess like July-ish or something. 'Cause yeah, we bought the house. Yeah, and so I got to work. That was also,

15:11 let's see, they hadn't bought the Dan Hughes asset. I was just there this summer, but I got to work California the Monterey, which was great. And they didn't allow me to use a computer really.

15:23 So all I did was paper logs, colored pencils, correlate, find a prospect, and I had to present it to them at the end of the summer. But I will tell you that moment and that first internship

15:35 opened my eyes to not only whatever story you need to tell as a geologist, but that you understand the data inputs because garbage in is garbage out. And that was a real life case that they, I mean,

15:47 great mentors, Rowdy Lamone, who was a VP for them and then Bud Simmons. I worked closely with Still to this day, also came to my wedding And I mean, it was just - great group of guys. And then

15:59 it brought me back to TCU saying, Hey, I don't want to stop this. I don't want to also wait tables the rest of my time. So my professor knew the VP at a XTO over geology and geophysics. And then

16:14 there you have it. And so I got to come back, finish up school, my junior. Yeah. So this was going into my senior year. And so I got to work full time interned at XTO downtown Fort Worth before

16:26 they were bought by Exxon. And so it was just awesome. So I got to go to school. Yeah, got to really get in early and work assets and real time and XTO just like planes. I mean, good group of

16:40 people, but also let you just be autonomous, even at that early stage. I mean, we're talking millions of dollars to go do some of these things, and they would keep you in the loop. They would

16:49 let you go in the field. You got to see it firsthand and very much a mentoring coaching type. format in both of those companies and they wanted you to just succeed. So it was a great learning

17:01 environment, getting into the industry where I knew nothing. Um, awesome. So the Exxon buys XTO, do you stick around for a while or? I didn't, I went back to planes. So they said, Hey, are

17:15 you going to stay, you know, do the Exxon thing? And it's like, Oh, all my managers were saying no, but a lot of them were handcuffed, right? So they had a non-compete for a certain period of

17:24 time Just finished my master's was ready to see, Hey, let's do that. So guess what, 2010, we came back to Houston and worked for them. And it was great. So that's when they bought the Dan

17:37 Hughes asset. So helped out in their equal ford and also California still. So some of the projects that I had worked when I was an intern, great group. However, because of the XTO connection,

17:50 then I got to experience private equity side by four or five guys.

17:57 from XTO started Firewheel Energy. Yeah. And so I got joined on that group and it was in KEPB back via Houston.

18:07 Again, great opportunity that I just couldn't say no to.

18:13 Thoroughly enjoy PXP. That was a hard one to walk away from, but also being at the ground floor of a startup at my age. I mean, I was late 20s. Yeah. I was like, why not? It was almost kind of

18:25 like starting internet companies back then. It was kind of like every one of these startups that happened made money. And it was still in the land grab. It was still, I mean, there was still a

18:34 lot of opportunity. And it was great to see that. We only grew it to 16, staff of 16. So I was one of five when we started that and so cool. And it was in West Texas. So that's where I had spent

18:45 most of my time. I would say, it ended up being, yeah, about eight years in Midland, great community It is today, can't wait to get out there more. It's where everything's happening. It's a

18:58 good group. And so Kyle Hammond was a CEO of that, XTOs. He was the head of the Permian Basin for XTO at the time. And so we did the Eastern shelf plate called Cline Shale, maybe part of it. Oh

19:11 yeah. We were part of the Cline. Had a few 100, 000 acres in that. Oxy was a partner and legacy reserves at the time. And so sold out of that into 2014, which was good timing And so got to see

19:25 that and drilled 10 wells and - You don't wind up selling too, I can't remember. Legacy took the operations. Okay. And so we got out of that, but some of those got, everyone kinda went different

19:37 places. But again, I was now maybe 30, 31 early 30s. And I decided to make it hard to myself, hence the rice owls. So when I was at the private equity, I realized in our first board meeting

19:50 that I had no idea what was being discussed. I get zero business classes in my undergrad. And now I'm in this room with, I don't even know what vocab, it's a foreign language. And so I told Kyle

20:03 at the time, I said, Hey, I gotta get my MBA. Like this is for me. So in 2012, when we started that, we joined Fire Wheel in 2011, went to Rice in the professional weekend program and Game

20:16 Changer. At least it got me up to speed. Still had a lot of work to do, not saying that, but at least it got me to talk the vocabulary and help support the team in a better capacity than just from

20:28 a geology perspective. And

20:31 so did that, graduated that in 2014. Fire Wheel kind of disseminated at the end of 2014 and I got on at Atlas Resource Partners there in Fort Worth. So the MLP structure, which is completely

20:44 different. And Mark Schumacher was CEO of that and he was great still stay in touch with him today. um, that was a really cool group. Um, but they had asset 14, 000 wells over the U S. Yeah, a

20:59 lot. A bunch of assets in that space. So that kind of broad, not only my technical background, but then I got into management. So after the MBA is when I started kind of getting a bit more

21:10 elevated and had some more responsibilities, and it was great. Um, so it kind of hit the ground running on that, but the MLP structure by 2016, after the downturn was incredibly challenging. So,

21:25 so Colia Rockoff, who was CFO of Lynn and is a dear friend. I call you as a, I like Colia a lot. He came into my office after Lynn collapsed. And he said, you know, everybody's been griping

21:38 about the capital structure. We literally went from 2 billion a year of EBITDA to 100 million. Tell me any capital structure that could sustain it was crazy. I mean, we took a, yeah, it went

21:57 down to a quarter of the employees. I mean, it was a tough time, stayed on, but through the sale process at Firewheel, I got in touch with TPH, so Maynard Holt, and

22:13 they were a great group, rice grads, they helped us sell our assets, and so I reached out to them and said, Hey, what's going on in Houston? They were doing some things at the time where

22:25 revamping their in-house technical group. I definitely wasn't a banker. I found that out, but I think for our students too, you got a challenge and broaden your scope, and sometimes it doesn't

22:38 work. You find out what doesn't work, but that's just as important as finding out what does. And so I spent nine months, eight months in a space where super uncomfortable. Love the people. The

22:51 momentum is great. Men are not going to rice together. Okay, yeah, so there's, again, another great rice connection. He lives four houses down to the house that the former Mrs. Yates got. Oh,

23:03 okay. He used to be neighbors. Oh, that's awesome. Great guy. They opened my eyes to so many cool things within that entity, but I would say, I was the mom of the group, right? So I had two

23:16 kids married. There's no reason I should have been an investment maker Like, I mean, either your marriage fails miserably, or, I mean, something's got to break. I wasn't doing anything well,

23:29 at least to the caliber that I felt that I could do. There just weren't enough hours in the day. You couldn't make everyone happy. And so with that, that's when total energies came in and bought

23:41 the remaining Chesapeake position Okay,

23:47 yeah. And so when they started that entity - One last Maynard story, 'cause I think this is fun. Okay, no, please go ahead. So, you know, I've got three kids, three daughters. Yeah. And the

23:54 oldest daughter

23:57 may have been eight years old. When she said this, we were driving by. She goes, I bet Mr. Holt keeps giraffes in his backyard,

24:10 you know, he was just fun. I mean, if anybody was gonna have a giraffe in their backyard, it probably was me. Yeah, oh my gosh, I love that. It certainly wasn't Bobby. Well. Or Chad. Yes.

24:21 But Maynard Maynard, definitely. Yeah, they're a great group and I don't, I will tell you, I have the utmost respect for energy investment bankers or investment bankers in general. I mean,

24:34 seeing how all of that goes in the day-to-day, I mean, these young finance minds, I mean, it's impressive.

24:43 That's not for the faint apart, for sure. That's right. Although you know what the, I worked for a guy at Stevens who pulled me aside one time. He was the old crusty guy that managed all the

24:56 Stevens family money. He goes, Hell, son, investment banking's just the artof stating the obvious with an air of discovery. And in a once, he kind of framed that for me. And it makes things a

25:09 lot easier, you know? It's so obvious. How do I make this look fancy? Let's build a model or, you know, whatever. And you're right. And that's where my motivation, and you can only stay so

25:22 positive so long, especially coming from the sciences and the operations side. I was like, that's BS. Like, that is not gonna work. And so I think there was part of me that I just couldn't put

25:33 that hat on all the time and miss the operation. So I think once you've started in the field and -

25:41 Yeah. Yeah. And there's a little bit of that too, but no, you really shouldn't. Um, and so, so getting back in the field was my kind of MO and our, who was our COO. So Dave Leopold at Atlas

25:56 ended up being the MD for total in the Barnett. Okay. We had stayed in touch and he said, Hey, I need someone to come run the sub service team and reserves and get this thing off the ground We're

26:07 building out the team now back in Fort Worth. Come on. So that was my kind of my segue out of investment banking back into operations and then go figure I didn't know anything about total. I mean,

26:19 they're not. It's not like you see their gas stations around the US. So you don't really know what their assets look like and whatnot. But that was eye opening. And then two years, guess what?

26:28 Then I was ended up in Paris. So why not take the family pregnant with the third one Let's go do this and work deep offshore for Angola. Really? Yeah. So manage the team, the subsurface group.

26:41 And for the Camillo project, it was block 20 and offshore Angola. Give me the discussion with the hubby at dinner. Yeah, how did that go? So luckily, I married a Marine who had traveled abroad.

26:57 This is very helpful and incredibly loyal. So he didn't just look at me like I was crazy. He had experienced international and loved the space and was really open to it He got a Marine to go to

27:09 France. That's really

27:14 impressive. Six months in, I wasn't sure how it was going to work, but we made it happen. Still together, which is actually, I mean, come

27:27 to find out expats in general. I mean, that's a tough family, work, life balance, whatever you want to call it. I mean, it's incredibly challenging for families to do. He was my number one

27:35 cheerleader and said, just go do We'll figure it out. And with three kids, I mean. we showed up, it was COVID, so we got a little delay. Our youngest was 11 months, right? No car, no AC,

27:47 and 1, 000 square foot, one shower. And you have to walk and pick up your groceries every night. And I mean, talk about a game changer outside of the day-to-day work. He was a trooper and

27:59 allowed it and was all for it, so.

28:03 He didn't say no, he very rarely says no. Now there was some thought process to it, but he's one for, hey, let's try it. If it doesn't work, we come back. Yeah. What's the, I mean, what's

28:15 the worst that's gonna happen? So our big thing is we just had to stay together. I wasn't gonna do a split where I would go someplace and then the family would go do something. I was like, that's

28:24 not on the table. So either if you want me to come, then everyone's gotta come too. Right. And that was kind of our rule, so. The same guy that said stating the obvious with an air of discovery,

28:38 And I say this with all love because if it was up to me, we'd be speaking German right now. I mean, I'm not going to, I'm not sure I'm even a lover, much less a fighter. But you know, I know

28:49 I'm not a fighter, but he used to always say to investing in early stage businesses, kind of like being a Marine, you don't want to be too smart or you'll get scared. Right. Exactly. No, the

29:01 ignorance is probably a good thing there No, so we went in and leaned into that one. Met some, again, great people, great opportunities. Energy doesn't set the best people in the band. I mean,

29:15 just wonderful. I mean, kids say, should I get into energy? And I'm like, well, there's a whole issue there. You need to think through cycles and all this, but you won't meet better people.

29:25 Right. Well, but now, okay, but to that, I don't think there's cycles anymore Because of the energy mix today, now it's about lowering the cost on all those energy sources. There is no

29:34 transition. That's BS. Right. I mean, there's never going to be. We need hydrocarbons because you need reliable and affordable energy. We burn more wood today for fuel than we ever have in the

29:45 history of the planet. It's just aside from whale blubber, we literally haven't transferred away from, transitioned away from a, from a fuel source. And, and, you know, all the talk about, oh,

29:57 2030, everything's going to decline. Absolutely not. I mean, I was just on these great deep offshore projects, sanctioned one in Angola and then went to Suriname and helped that team sanction the

30:07 one there in Suriname with Apache was our, our partner in that asset. There's no shortage of hydrocarbons. We haven't even unlocked South America and Latin America yet. I mean, we get, I mean,

30:19 come on, we get what eight to 10 of the oil in place out. And now that's improving if we can move the water. So you're hitting on a great point. We have water producers in the US because we're so

30:31 much more mature, but the rest of world hasn't even, they're 20 years behind that window. They are just now having. some of

30:40 the commercial discussions to get some of these resources off the ground, like what we've done in West Texas and in Texas in general in the US since the early 2000s with, I mean, George Mitchell in

30:50 the late '90s, I mean, that kick started it off. So it's gonna be really interesting because what gets to happen here in Texas, right? So we're at a later, a more mature stage. Let's take all

31:01 these learnings and the way not to do it, that we found out very early on and go give that to other countries that are trying to unlock these assets. It's there. It's just a matter of handling the

31:14 water and doing things properly that are also clean and sustainable. We can have that conversation long as you include economics and that's our big push. You need all of it, hydrocarbons is not

31:26 gonna go away, but we can do a much cleaner and not have op-ex go through the roof And that's our, I mean, that's our prerogative in industry now. I would never do this. because at the end of the

31:39 day, some really, really bad stuff would happen. But there have been moments after two, maybe three glasses of wine where a group of folks talking about hydrocarbons and the benefits of it have

31:51 been like, Screw it, let's just turn them off for a week. And let's just, everybody live your life and then let's have an honest, thoughtful discussion about balancing this. Absolutely. And

32:04 that's what, I mean, it's so crazy, not ignorance in a bad way, but the lack of understanding of what petroleum is actually used for, not only in everything that we do, but also agriculture. If

32:17 you don't have petroleum products to have all these things, you don't have food, you don't have anything that we have in this room is really sustainable without that. There is no other, I mean,

32:31 no other material or product that can replace it. And so it's, it's just crazy that. our world does not figure that out and understand that importance. And doesn't appreciate it. That is, and I

32:45 actually put that all on us though. We don't talk about it, you're right. We don't talk about it. Absolutely. Let's sit there and shut up. Then number two, when things are going well for us,

32:54 usually things aren't going well for the economy because oil prices is a big endpoint. Right. And so I say this all the time on the podcast and I've got one guy that tweets it out about once a week

33:06 just to rub it in my face But when things are going well for us, please don't freeze a Yankee bumper stickers. Right. I mean, I know. You know, we could show a little bit of humility. Yeah.

33:19 And you know on that same vein, what's crazy is when I saw how much effort, time and money goes into Deep Offshore in these larger scale projects, we're talking about wells that maybe cost five to

33:32 10 million. you lose that, something doesn't go well, it's not the end of the world. I mean, the project in Suriname, I mean, you're talking about over10 billion and you spend over a billion

33:43 before you even know you're gonna get a revenue stream. The risk that goes into these projects, like Angola, I mean, that took seven, eight years to then sanction a project. They bought the

33:53 assets in 2017 from Cobalt when they went bankrupt. That's why these companies don't always succeed. I mean, the risk and the capital exposure that these companies have is huge on the international

34:04 side. But we need it. I mean, we have to be spending those dollars in a prudent manner, but then also produce them cleaner. So you don't have flaring. You can't just throw the water overboard.

34:17 What do you do with your drill cuttings when you're in the middle of nowhere? I mean - Although you know what my favorite stat is? Yeah. Oh, what was the off-shore BP? Well, why am I blowing -

34:28 Oh, my condo. My condo Oh yeah,

34:31 it's speed.

34:36 It's beautiful. And I'm gonna sound like a Homer for the industry. Yeah. It only spewed about five years worth of natural seepage that comes from the bottom of the ocean. So I always say, yes,

34:45 it's really bad. We shouldn't do that, you know, penalties ought to happen. We ought to be more careful, et cetera. At the end of the day, it's not like stuff isn't just spewing from the bottom

34:58 of the ocean as we speak. Yes. It's not like we - Which no one's testing, by the way We're spending enough science to understand how much energy sits at the bottom of our ocean. Exactly, well,

35:08 and the other way I say it, too, is it's not like somebody in 1856 was walking along and said, I really need to drill down and go find something that maybe if I catch it on fire, it'll lead to

35:23 energy. Seeps out natural. I know, Drake did it. Yep, exactly. We had an asset in

35:31 the La Brea,

35:33 You're playing, you're playing, you know it. Yeah, exactly. So we wound up buying that at one point, and the first thing our CEO wanted to do is just take a vacuum truck out there and clean up

35:45 all the oil on the field, and the lawyers freaked out. Nope, don't do that. The second you pick that up, you're admitting you caused it, and it's not natural seepage. So there's literally oil

35:57 sitting out there. Orchid Hill too. You can see it from LAX, we can take off There's oil sitting in it that we could pick up, but the lawyers are gonna tell us that it's not natural seepage.

36:07 Exactly, exactly. No, it's, I mean, it's so crazy. And what's unfortunate about the industry is the only time they really hear from us is if it's something negative. Right. We're not proactive.

36:18 I mean, we're not talking about how energy makes our world in all these critical things. The group I love is Scott Tinker, the Switch Energy Alliance. I mean, they're awesome. I chatted with

36:30 Scott. That's why you're - I mean, he's great. He is great, and now we're working with them as well from a university side, because they've got case competitions. They're bringing some of this

36:40 awareness to the general public with their PBS stuff and with other podcasts that they do, too, that we just need to get the message out there. But the industry itself, I mean, we're horrible at

36:52 it I mean, we don't do all those things. It's two things in my mind, or three things, actually. One is when you produce a barrel of oil, you just sell it into the market, right? Where if

37:05 you're Nike and you make shoes, you gotta go convince people that Nike's better than Adidas. So there's no marketing culture and oil and gas. You just sell a commodity. And then number two, we're

37:17 run by a bunch of engineers. who are the worst at telling a story. All they do is throw facts, figures, and reason at you, which is the worst way to try to change somebody's mind. And then I

37:30 think the third thing is we're just gun shy 'cause we get beat up. You're polluting the environment, blah, blah, blah. So I'll just bury my head over here. Exactly, it's always defensive.

37:39 Instead of taking on an offensive approach, I mean, we just kind of hide behind and hope no one notices us. But it's really unfortunate because all the great things that are actually happening in

37:50 the industry, the innovation, the new solutions are happening in Texas in particular because we have such the ease of doing business and people that do wanna be cleaner. It's just, we don't have

38:01 to necessarily lump it with climate change and all the things, but we wanna conserve our land. We need water, right? Water is a big problem. So let's focus on that and find innovative solutions.

38:11 So it's really unfortunate and that's what the beauty of higher ed though You get to be kind of this middleman and talk about that. in a much more open space where you don't have investor relations

38:24 down your throat on saying what you can and can't say or some sort of legal notice at the beginning of every presentation, you can kind of just say really kind of what the status quo is and all the

38:35 good things that are happening. I mean, when I

38:38 discuss climate with anyone, if they do not start it with the average life expectancy doubles, once you go from burning hydrocarbons from burning dung and wood inside your house, if you don't start

38:53 there, then you're not being serious and thoughtful on the other side. Right. Because I'm willing to talk to you about CO2 levels rising and 150 years from now, people dying. But if we can't

39:06 start with the benefits of hydrocarbon, then yeah Exactly. And then it's a, it's a cost game. And so this is what we need to focus on it. The energy has to be reliable. It's got to be affordable.

39:19 but it's clean. And so that's the weird grouping that we have to include in the conversation. The only thing I change on how you say it when I talk is, can it just be cleaner? Meaning relatively

39:33 speaking, can we get a little bit better each day? Yeah. As opposed to, 'cause I think the problem is any sort of technology that's gonna fit in the world today can be commercial, has to use the

39:48 existing energy of the structure. Yeah. I mean, if we were starting from scratch, sure we might use hydrogen, but we're not. No, and I think you're right. So why I like the clean is it depends

39:60 on your end user. How clean does it have to be? So to your point, I think there's this fine line. It depends on where that product is going and how it needs to get there. Because from our

40:10 emissions reduction, the methane and the carbon footprint reduction, I mean, it's huge We've made huge strides as an industry.

40:19 Have we talked to the concrete manufacturers? Have we talked to the other industries and farmers manufacturing all of

40:28 this where some of these processes are through the roof on their impact on ozone and particular matter that is not nearly as bad as some of the metrics in the oil and gas industry. So again, they

40:42 see the dollar signs with oil and gas because it's a commodity But then why isn't water a commodity? I mean, that's silly. We have the right ways. Oil and gas moves in our state. Why not water?

40:55 Whoever has the water and the security of water will win. And every day, like, why isn't Midland green? They have the most produced water in the country of over 25 million barrels a day. They

41:09 could have flowing rivers and lakes that they could, instead of going, you know, to Austin and elsewhere. I mean, why not? Have it in their backyard. It's super cool. I mean, but everything's

41:21 in place to your point. The infrastructure's there, but you've got to realize that it's a scarcity. And people think that because we can still turn on our faucets, it's not. But we're in droughts,

41:32 year after year. We're pulling more from the water tables and they're not recharging. I mean, that's gonna be another 100 million years as a geologist. It doesn't just fill itself. And people are

41:42 moving here, which we want. We want to include the development. We want all of our cities to grow Houston is the same, but we've got to make sure what would Memorial Park be without the bayou?

41:54 Fair enough, yeah. I mean, that's silly. And so that's happened in West Texas. Why? I mean, it's crazy. So this is that policy and economic gain that is so incredibly unfortunate that we need

42:06 to change. 'Cause ultimately everything's a trade off. Exactly. You know, until it's gone, they don't know, but now living global, I promise you, there are communities that don't have clean

42:15 water. So to your point on the clean side, how clean does it need to be for the product that you're working with and the technology's there? That's what's so crazy about it. I was just up at Tetra

42:27 Technologies here in the woodlands. I mean, there's no shortage of technology. It's now just making sure people know what's out there and what can be done in the policies need to go with it to make

42:40 it happen. But it's coming hopefully sooner rather than later for Texas in general. Until all my environmentalist friends, you'd rather it happen here than other parts of the world where they don't

42:54 care. Exactly. Why not be the proof of concept? Do it here. Show people the playbook on how to leverage this phase two of oil and gas when the water cut is so high, GORs are through the roof and

43:07 you don't have an outlet for the gas. Yeah. Right? Exactly.

43:13 I mean, put it back in, put it back where it needs to go and then show other countries how that can be used at the start. So when you develop initially, if we knew what we knew now, right, with

43:23 the shale plays and how that was gonna grow and crazy on the infrastructure and billions of dollars spent on that, if we knew that at the forefront, I mean, the optimization that you could do for

43:34 some of these plays that are happening globally before they even get off the ground, they're still an exploration phase, it's massive Let Texas be that, let them write that and help out with that

43:46 and get legislation on board. So that, I mean, you can plug and play it elsewhere. Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. So how do you get to TCU?

43:58 Great question, I was on the RLEI board. So the Ralph Low Energy Institute, thanks to Mary Ralph for kicking off this awesome endowment back in 2007 It was in the College of Science and Engineering.

44:11 got reintroduced in 2017 when I came back to Fort Worth with the Barnette group, did some adjunct teaching and staying kind of in the loop. And then two years ago, it moved into the business school.

44:22 And so when it did that, that's where we kind of hit this new tone, if you will. It's not just about the engineering, but it's about the economic technical solutions. And so last summer, gosh,

44:36 it's almost been a year, last summer, my predecessor, Anne Blancer, was leaving in her role as executive director, was a professor at TCU for, I think, 12 or 13 years. And they said, hey,

44:48 would you ever consider kind of coming back to TCU and taking this deal to the next level? And at first, I was like, I don't know. Suriname was going really well. We were sanctioning the project

45:04 there, and it was great, I loved it And it just kind of was this, in the back of my mind, after about a month. I couldn't stop thinking about it. I was like, it would be great. My husband was

45:15 kind of ready to come back to Texas. So kids were so 10, eight and five. And it's like, you know, maybe it's time. And so we chatted for a couple months and then went up to meet Mary Ralph in

45:30 Colorado to have a very blunt conversation. And if you get to ever meet Mary Ralph Lowe, she is a forced to reckon with It's just an amazing human being. And in about 30 minutes, she made the call

45:44 and she said, Yep, you're it. And she called the chancellor at TCU and said, Stop the surge, I found my person. And that was first week in August, so the rest is history. So I stayed on with

45:57 Total until we sanctioned on October 1st, the Deep Offshore project there. And then came back in October and ran with it I had stayed in touch with them, mentoring a couple students through the

46:09 program on their graduate side. And yeah, again, say why not? And so I was like, sure, let's come back. I love the network and Fort Worth is wonderful. The community is great. So yeah,

46:24 that's what got me back here. Yeah, I was about to say, I don't know how Paris is great and all, but I don't know how long I could go without a JOT's run. So I mean. The margaritas were really

46:34 hard to come by I will say that in jalapenos. Yeah, exactly, so what does the institute do? So you're embedded in the business school, but what are y'all doing? Great question. So we have three

46:46 ways we can touch students. And this is where we're not a department. So not faculty, I'm staff. I'm kind of the industry facing person to have these discussions with what's happening in current

46:58 events and bring these to our students. And so now how we're gonna do this is in three ways One, the energy club, which - is for undergrads and grads. So we're gonna have, this is where a Switch

47:10 Energy Alliance case competitions get teams made and get the energy club out in the community to talk about energy. And so Switch has already done something great in Austin and they have the

47:21 materials there. It's not like we have to recreate things. And so what we're gonna do that is more in Fort Worth ISD and some of the local high schools, not only local, but some of even the

47:31 private high schools that are in the area and to build up what is energy and what is a career in energy, what are those opportunities? And so in the undergraduate space, what we have is an energy

47:42 business minor. And that's where we can adjust the curriculum or professors or things that come into the classroom that we have a lot of flexibility around within the Nealey school. And so we get

47:52 these great students. For instance, the project we're gonna kick off this summer is I'm gonna keep five interns. They're from sophomores to seniors. And we're gonna work on a marginal orphan

48:03 wealth study for an independent operator and come up with solutions and another energy source or revenue stream for that group, but also clean up some of these marginal wells with carbon markets. So

48:16 they get to see, so I have a geologist, I have an eco major, I have a polycyme major and a finance that are all gonna work together and it's kind of like a mini consulting business. So I get to

48:28 mentor them and say, all right here, one, two, three, go And I've got a hole in the ground that produces heat. We ought to be able to figure out something with it. And we can also lower your

48:38 op-ex with the SWD and your LOE on electrical. Like you shouldn't be paying, those should not be your highest LOE. Right. Like, come on, let's figure this out. And I brought on and she's great,

48:51 a project coordinator. So Dr. Ashley Titus is on the environmental side. So she's science education PhD but environmental management background to compliment my skillset Because I'm, again,

49:02 there's a lot of things that I'm still learning in this side. And so she's done more surface work also with range management. And so we're gonna figure out also surface, not just below ground

49:12 things, solutions to problems. And so that's what we're gonna kick off. So I get to leverage the undergrads to do that who doesn't, where they don't get to a bank or they don't get a summer

49:22 internship. We have some really smart kiddos that I wanna get them plugged in because then they can put it on their CVs, right? So giving them jobs. Now they're getting very relevant topics,

49:33 current events, legislation coming through Austin as we speak on very much these topics and what the railroad commission is going to maybe ask operators to do moving forward. Let's get this to 'em

49:43 so that they can talk intelligently as they talk on interviews and get 'em exposure. So their summer reading before they start with you is they need to listen to the podcast, I'll drop this

49:56 Wednesday. So what's that, two days from now? Okay. So Mike Taylor came on and he's an expert carbon and emission credits. Okay. There's a program going on in the state of Texas. Right now as

50:10 we speak, I think it's 13 counties are above their air limits. And so that means the state is imposed. Yep. Emissions credits on them And. we theorize, could you go in and buy old PDP, plug

50:27 things? Exactly, so you need a plugging company? Yes, exactly So that's the winner, and that's absolutely. And how do you leverage that carbon market to get some cash in these operators' hands

50:40 so that they can plug them properly? 'Cause they're carbon credits, but they're also the emissions credits now. Which are exactly with the cities. So you have to be talking with the economic

50:51 development partnerships of the cities, which is who we're linked in with and Fort Worth. And then also, I mean, from the carbon market So climate wells is who we're working with out of Austin.

51:03 Who's doing this? Yeah, no, I mean, it's great I'm really good at getting 80 of the way there really quickly but I'm too lazy to do the remaining 20 So it won't happen, but we just kind of walk

51:16 through it. They're right. There is absolutely a lot of work to do there For Bing County and Harris County by well plug them. There you go I mean it cash it's great for everyone and then what you

51:27 can actually do from what are the other use cases for that land Think about the 1500 pad sites in DFW for the bar net shale Really? I mean, I think we could remove some of that concrete or start

51:42 putting up other energy sources on those sites or data centers Exactly leverage the water and the gas already. That's not economic to move out of basin, right? I mean, there's so many I mean,

51:54 there's so many ways we can be cool so the kids will get geek out on that this Awesome. Yeah, so

52:01 what was the third thing? Energy MBAs. Okay. So we got a graduate program and that we work with our grad. I mean, you can get an energy certificate or energy MBAs, but really where I'm focused

52:12 now, now, okay, being in for a few months, we need all those engineers to your point. The engineers that don't know how to tell a story and to market, that's who should come to our program and

52:24 they get to strategize, innovate, and focus on entrepreneurship and the economics. So if you're a reservoir engineer, okay, you're running a lot of the economics. But for mechanical, civil,

52:35 all the other engineers who aren't necessarily tied into the business as closely as like a reservoir engineer, petroleum engineers are, let us give you that business acumen and help, again, you

52:50 will also succeed a little bit differently depending on your career trajectory. And

52:56 so that's where we can adapt the curriculum. on some of that, like Tom Seng. So Dr. Seng, who's finance, but he's trading midstream background. And he does a weekly report called the lowdown of

53:10 all the oil gas markets and where he's going. And so he kind of keeps really close tabs on, from the pricing. And we have a lot of great professors and adjuncts who come in to talk about what the

53:25 business really needs. And so it's not, we're not gonna be focusing on and engineer. I don't want to train nuclear engineers. That's not our program. What our program's about is taking someone

53:36 that has technical skills and broadening those skills so that they can plug and play in other ways. And that would be, that's our hope and that's our mission, is to create more leadership and

53:48 business acumen in these technical domains. 'Cause I mean, ultimately, at the end of the day, and say this to everybody. Counting is the language. Yes. And to their credit, I think the

54:06 accountant's got it, right? The double entry accounting, et cetera. Net income actually does matter over the long.

54:14 But at the end of the day, valuation is where you get into equal part science and art. And it's the perception of risk. Yeah. And being able to handle the engineering and talk about the economics,

54:31 but then you've got to translate it into risk so that you can ultimately figure out the balance sheet and values of things. Absolutely. And the folks that can do all of that are the folks that make

54:47 it in this world. Exactly. And that's what we want to just give them another skill set, why expand their toolbox of skills, but you got it. For me, my biggest thing where I see the students that

54:60 succeed the most and just having gone through an MBA as well, I mean, right, I had a cohort of 55, about half of us oil and gas background. But the ones that really succeed and got it, we're

55:10 able to step back, first off be humble. When you don't know something, it's okay. Ask questions, you see that. I mean, you can see it in the classroom. The ones where the light bulbs start

55:22 going off, you're like, okay, and that they're curious, right? Anyone can be a number cruncher, right? Especially now. I mean, talk about a model generation. You just ask AI to build it.

55:34 You don't have to spend the time, but now it's about who actually understands what's behind the number and then can tell a story about it. And those are the ones to your point. It's really not the

55:44 accountant, but it gets to the finance piece 'cause they tend to have a broader vision on that evaluation, just like geologists. You have a development geologist and an exploration geologist.

55:54 they're not going to do the same thing. A development geologist needs the data, like the accountant, they need the spreadsheet, but then an exploration geologist has no data. And they're like,

56:04 well, we're going to tell a story about this and it's going to make sense and we're going to use this analog and we're going to do this, it's the exact same thing. And whoever can do kind of

56:12 balance, it's those

56:15 huge. And I think that's what, those are the folks I want to focus on in our program that'll raise that bar and get really good conversations and discussions to happen in class. And then they'll be

56:28 more successful with their companies too, I think. And so where are you first interacting with kids? I mean, it sounds like you have the undergrad major and so are you out talking to high

56:43 schoolers? Saying come to TCU 'cause this is really cool. Yeah, so we're starting there. We're getting more of the prospective students that get on campus so that already TC is probably on their

56:54 radar. We haven't expanded to that yet, but that's what I want to do through our Energy Club because they're more relatable. You need to really get buy-in from that age. I'm still look like as a

57:04 mom. They're like, oh, you're a mom. Are you on TikTok? Yeah, right. Exactly. And so I want the students that are in their 18 to 21 to go talk to these because they're more relatable. If they

57:17 hear it from them, it's going to be way more impactful than hearing it from us. I mean, it's kind of like you're the mom coming in like, oh, you should tell me to go do this. And I don't know

57:25 what I'm talking about. So you know, it was kind of crazy. Colin McClellan, CEO of Digital Archetters, actually, we're becoming collide. Yeah. Now that we've been. I heard that. I mean,

57:38 it's great. Now that we're VC back, yeah. I'm the world's greatest AI enterprise software salesman to the energy business, which is funny because I do everything on. pencil and paper in my

57:49 notebook, but column made a TikTok video one time of how a drill bit works. It literally wound up with two million views and two weeks. And you look in the comments and you get the periodic, Oh,

58:03 you're destroying the planet. But most of them are all, This is so cool. I had no idea. No idea. Yeah. Absolutely correct. They have no idea what's really happening. Again, we just don't talk

58:13 about it. So your platform is great, which is why I had you guys up at our symposium, too, in getting it in front of the students to say, Hey, go sign up. Ask it your questions. Because we

58:23 don't have enough time to meet with them individually, but tools like what you guys are building are great for us and our students. Because it gets them, Go check out, do some research first.

58:34 Then you come to meet with very specific questions, and let's refine. It's a huge help. And that's what, again, our students this summer will use on their project, a lot of this vocabulary,

58:45 they've never heard of. They have no idea what this looks like. They don't come from oil, I guess. So it'll be new. I think that's

58:54 what's cool about what you guys are doing and that collaboration also with higher ed because it just gets the information out there, like videos like that. Yeah,

59:04 so how do folks get in touch, learn more?

59:10 And who else do you wanna hear from besides perspective undergrads, folks potentially getting an MBA? Who else do you wanna hear about from? So my big focus is the problem in academia is we're five

59:25 to seven years behind. Right. Okay, so what's cool about my role is I wanna hear from the industry, like my meeting this morning at Tetra Technologies. What is really happening? Where are the

59:36 challenges that you guys are faced with and where is the business going? I wanna hear from the managers and executives from these companies saying, all right. HR-wise, what are you guys missing?

59:48 What skills are not that you're not seeing in your middle management, that you want them to succeed so that you can feed the pipeline? That's where we come in. And so it's not just perspective

59:60 students for the program to be really impactful. Let's say, let's be honest. There's some egos in that space, right? There's people that just wanna check the box. But I wanna hear from the HR

1:00:11 manager and the talent developer to say, what are the needs? Like, what are they missing? And let us cater some programs because we're small. We're not a state university. We have a lot more

1:00:22 flexibility in the classes that we can offer and the professors or industry partners that we can work with to make a very catered approach for them as they grow. And people are growing really fast,

1:00:33 just like AI, for instance. I mean, how many people really, just like your platform, are actually using it day to day in the way it could be used that could be really effective for them and save

1:00:45 them time. I would say less than 10 yeah, not even that probably not not even and so I will tell you it is stunning the number of people when we go to a meeting And we'll open up with have you used

1:00:59 chat GPT? Have you used gras? I'll say no people say no It's insane. Yeah, and it's a disservice because we have the technology and so higher ed I mean that should be the higher ed space. Let's

1:01:10 offer you You know a three-day course for your managers on how to use such a thing, right? Like it's a tool tell them my kids play with it every day. Yeah, cuz like everything else in the world we

1:01:25 always underestimate overestimate what a technology can do in the short term underestimate it in the long term and so I mean it is the future. It's where we're going. Yeah, I mean and I would say

1:01:38 even I'm gonna take courses So like now that I'm at higher ed, I'm like, oh, I really could brush up on this or what's happening in this And that's where at school because within the business

1:01:48 school, we have all these different domains. So we have supply chain, we have AI, we have business analytics, we have exec ed. So depending on what our industry partners need, I mean, that's

1:01:59 where I can help facilitate that and collaborate within the university to help the business, I mean, at the end of the day. And where you don't have to just do a two-year degree, you can do

1:02:10 something very catered, which is our hope in Midland. I mean, there's a lot of focus for us right now on moving and getting a footprint in Midland. That's a much stronger connection. Yeah, no,

1:02:21 I bet that's true. So how do people reach you? They got, you got a website. Yep, so we go to the Nealey School of Business. You can just type in the Ralph Lowe Energy Institute. It'll take you

1:02:32 to our page. What you could also see is our global energy symposium that we just had in April. And you guys were up there, collide was up there. We did a shout out for them and they were there

1:02:43 recording the whole day. It's a really good summary video and article to give you kind of touch points on what we're really talking about in the domains. And we had, we were very intentional with

1:02:53 our speakers and who we wanted to be forward facing with our students like Diamondback, like people ExxonMobil managers to

1:03:02 say, what is really happening not only in Texas, but globally. And that's where they brought that perspective. Quick shout out to Exxon for all the, oh, they're stodgy old now We were literally

1:03:14 in the room where they were geo-steering all four of the offshore - For Guyana. For Guyana. For Guyana. Yeah. I mean,

1:03:25 all four of 'em and they have Baker Hughes sitting there talking to Halliburton, et cetera. So cool. That room is, we walked in and said, let us do a podcast from here. Right. I mean, if kids

1:03:37 saw that, no kid would ever go to Silicon Valley ever again, if they saw all this cool stuff,

1:03:45 No, that's when they got stodgy. Well, we can't do that. Yeah, I mean, but if you think about it, again, it's you're back to scale. When we're talking about these wells, that's 150 million

1:03:52 plus per well. Yeah. And you have a 20-something-year-old behind the steers and saying where to go. Yeah, and they're doing it in Houston. I know. They're not sending a fax to the rage. A fax,

1:04:05 a fax. All right, come on, the company man is like, oh, okay, we got to turn right I mean, they're literally steering it from there. Yeah, it's impressive. And the dollars and the risk back

1:04:17 to your risk mitigation. I mean, we, technology is changing so much quicker now than it did ever. And so the industry needs to catch up. I mean, think about all the well file rooms, right?

1:04:31 Yeah. What are we going to do with all that? We use less than, that's always our sales pitch when we got applied, when we talked to VCs,

1:04:40 The industry uses less than 1 of the data it has. Easily. Yeah. I mean, it's insane on what's stored in all of these basements across wherever in the welfare, the paper well files that have never

1:04:52 been digitized. Yeah, it's insane. I forget the amount. So I'm just gonna say a shit ton. Yeah, yeah. One company has all these servers with a shit ton of data on it. And they don't know

1:05:05 what's there. Well, we just bought stuff. We got these files. We don't even know what's in there Exactly. That's crazy. So anyways, so much, a lot of opportunity. And it can meet any student

1:05:17 with any major. It doesn't matter if you're marketing, if you're economics, if you're policy, policy side, if you're geoscience engineering, it's for everyone. I mean, that's big, our tagline.

1:05:30 Having an energy business minor at that stage just gives you that vocabulary and acumen that you may not get until getting into space. So anyways, yeah, so much to do. It's cool you're doing this.

1:05:44 So you and I potentially differ in how we view our Rice MBA. I was 94 in kind of pre, I believe 99. Most people didn't like their Rice MBA. Yeah. And Whitaker came in and did great things and put

1:06:03 it on the course where you probably liked your MBA. I thought you got a lot from it But one of the things I argued back in '94 is make the MBA just an energy MBA. You're being used in Texas. So

1:06:15 it's cool you guys are doing it for worth. Yeah, no, it's great. And it's not as big as we want it to be. So that's why doing these things is great to bring that attraction and get it to that

1:06:28 next level where it's competitive, you raise the bar and then you get to actually have influence. I mean, some of these work products we just did with our energy MBA, our industry projects. where

1:06:40 they have to speak to the client directly, it's like consulting. But it's real life that, okay, it doesn't affect your bonus, right? But you get to learn. It's a safe space to, you know, try

1:06:50 things and fail a little bit and get some constructive feedback that then you can take to your companies. So that's the cool part about being on this side of the space. And we hope that that grows.

1:07:04 We need energy everywhere in Texas, and we love to call that in Fort Worth to come to TCU and do that there. Altman came out and said last week, I think he said AI is ultimately energy. It is.

1:07:16 That's just where we are. And so hopefully the thoughts of energy is going away and all that. Yes. Hopefully we've gotten rid of that. Agreed. Thank you. We're so cool to come on. I appreciate

1:07:28 this. Thank you. Standing invite to come back. Anytime you want well, I appreciate it