Chuck Yates Needs A Job

0:20 So what's the origin of you joining digital wildcatters - So this was kind of the story. So, you know, I get fired and that was - 19-20 - That was April of 20, 20 - It was post COVID - Yeah -

0:36 That's all right - Yeah, it was like, Chuck, we need to get on a Zoom call. Okay, we need to let you go because of performance. I was like, I caused minus 37 a whole, I mean, I'm glad to know

0:46 on that power, powerful But yeah, so it got booted and then just kind of sat around enrichment texts at home and didn't, you know, didn't really do anything. And David, DeRode and Joshua Ory,

1:03 who were doing oil field 360, called me up and said, Hey, you wanna come on the podcast? And I'll actually put this picture up on the video version. I'll find it for you real quick. I mean, I

1:15 hadn't shaved And, you know, I just like. Man, I don't, I shave anymore. I don't have a job. I'm not fundraising. And so I kind of did that and I went and talked with them and they said, you

1:29 know, here we go, here I am - Oh yeah - Yeah, there you go - Colin's always like, that could be in a beef jerky commercial - That's watching - But no, so they had me on and they normally record

1:42 an hour edit at 45 minutes. We might have been talking for three hours. I called the next day, I go, hey, was that all right? I had to go and they were like, great. And I go, when does it

1:50 come out? And they said, never. And I go, what do you mean - It's too long - I go, what do you mean never? And they go, Chuck, we stopped counting F-bombs when you hit 26. And I was like,

1:58 ooh. Because man, we got sponsors. So anyway, they said, hey, why don't you do a podcast for us? And I said, sure, you know, happy to. And I recorded a couple of them and Devin, Joshua,

2:10 but dear, dear friends, but they were kind of like, well, we may need to listen to that before it goes out I was like, Hey, fair enough and I don't want. No, I don't have a position. Yeah. I

2:21 don't, I don't have a mothership right now. I plan to be a 13 year old boy and tell poopy jokes and fart jokes. Whatever's funny. Yeah, whatever is just kind of funny. And so it just made more

2:34 sense to, to do it on digital wildcatters. Cause I, I called Colin and I was like, Hey, do you want my podcast? And I didn't really even know Colin. I was like, do you want my podcast? And he

2:43 said, yeah. I was like, well, what I needed to do, he sent me a file and 48 hours later it was up. And there was a rocket ship video out on LinkedIn and stuff. And so that's kind of how it went.

2:54 Now I kind of thought, and I haven't talked to Colin, but digital wildcatters kind of feels like a bar stool sports for energy with the conferences you're doing and kind of bringing the fun side to

3:04 it, like making it interesting and bringing good content together. So it's a, it's kind of an interesting process. How much of the businesses I'm not trying to interview you? I don't know. I'm

3:14 just curious. Like the, you said you've, you've talked about everything so I'm just curious. So for your business, you're doing a lot of recruiting as well. I mean, you're bringing so many

3:23 different people together at these events that it seems like you could easily start going down the path of, you know, companies are trying to find good people. You're attracting good people. You

3:34 bring that together. Do you do any of that work or? So, so I think if you look at digital wildcatters and, you know, the beauty of being the unpaid intern around here, although technically my

3:46 title is Galactic Viceroy I am the Galactic Viceroy of digital wildcatters.

3:53 You have a card? They're printing me a card actually. It says Chuck Yeats, Galactic Viceroy. And then on the back it says, I'll call you. Okay. Perfect. Now you need to get one of these. I'll,

4:01 I got this as a gift. It's basically a virtual card and you can put whatever you want on it and then they scan your QR code so you could just have, you know, digital wildcatters. Because if you're

4:12 going to be Galactic Viceroy. companies in six months. You need to change your car quickly. You have to have a plan and after the third, after the third company, it's like, I'm just going to

4:24 stop printing paper. Don't print it. I don't want to kill trees anymore. Nice. That's been in it. It's been a great year. So it's actually four companies. Is it really? If you want to layer

4:33 one more in, I could, I wasn't actually snarky enough. But so digital wildcatters, kind of the business model is, you know, you have content generally through podcasts. I think we're publishing

4:45 seven podcasts. We're on and off on a newsletter, but that BDE is coming back. So we'll have newsletter and then you're doing the events. And you're right, the cool thing about the events are we

4:58 try to do fun. So we have cool topics like Bitcoin, mining, merging with the energy business and fuse. Hey, let's all get in the same room and quit pissing on each other like we normally

5:10 renewable guys, you have to hug oil and gas guy and vice versa. We're trying to do all that. But you're right, the key to the content is, and what I really like about digital wildcatters is no

5:23 one's reading a press release. Nobody's reading an investor presentation. It's, hey, come on, get real. And I think that's what you've kind of seen on our podcast and at our events is the

5:35 content. Pretty genuine stuff and deals with real issues And so I think that's what draws in the community. Then sort of the long-term vision of digital wildcatters is we've got an app called

5:50 Collide, which is, if you think about it, it's really souped up very functional Twitter. Because you use Twitter and it's impossible, right? Hey, what did Pickering tweet out? And you go spend

6:02 an hour, you can't ever find it So the hope is we gravitate our community to Collide. Those are where the follow-up type conversations can have. David and I were sitting there at Fuse talking about

6:16 this. We were talking about that. You go find each other in Clyde. And long-winded story of answering your question, but hopefully we'll have lots of channels on Clyde. If you're a geothermal

6:28 engineer and you've got a problem, you can go in and there are 200 other geothermal engineers - Yeah, kind of like a Slack almost, where you can develop channels, you can have specific things,

6:37 you can drive that into - We're trying to be the best of LinkedIn, Twitter, Slack And to your point with jobs, what we're gonna, jobs would be an obvious fit for that. And I think what we're

6:50 gonna try to do is take it beyond posting - Yeah - And I'll give you just an example of this. We had Toby Rice in shooting some content one night and

7:04 I wouldn't hear that night, but Colin goes, Hey, you like that guy? on Twitter and Toby's like, Oh yeah, great guy smart and all this and a Colin goes, well, he's right there - Oh yeah - He's

7:15 like, oh wow, that's you? And he goes, by the way, he's going to work for EQT out in the field. And Toby's like, what - No, that's pretty cool - So Toby goes scrolling through, picks it up.

7:25 And Toby's like, you're not working out in the field. Your production manager in the office, 'cause you get it. And that kind of, what I'll say, learnings, if you will, doesn't show up in a

7:37 resume. May or may not show up in a job interview, but interaction online. So we're going to try to capture interaction online - Real people - Yeah, so that it'll say, hey, David, I know this

7:51 is crazy. This 22 year old, and here's the resume, and it doesn't show it. But you've been interacting with that person on collide and Twitter, and you think they get it, right? Oh yeah, they

8:03 totally get it. Why don't you talk to them about this job? So - Nah, I've got a job placement already. I mean, we need a geologist that wants to do carbon capture and modeling. in Ohio is where

8:14 our class six team is and Battelle's there as well. So CarbonVirt, that's my most recent job. I'll talk about the four jobs - Are we gonna be there longer than six months? If so, we can talk

8:25 about it - We can, totally - Okay - Yeah, the, I actually, Strive was a three week job at the end of the day. Three months of talking from introduction to ending, but a three week truly paid

8:41 assignment No, but CarbonVirt, you know, it's a geologic carbon capture company, but we're really aiming to do more. Founders came out of solar tax equity and out of Shell doing projects in

8:53 Canada and actually a bunch of upstream projects as well. New Jan Sherman, who was at Shell in the 90s. I actually, we're right around the corner from each other when I started working there. And

9:05 so, you know, put them together actually in 2020 20.

9:13 And really just 2021 actually is whenever Alex reached out to me. But the whole thought process was, can you actually start moving forward in that perfect convergence of the oil and gas world and

9:29 what's happening around net zero targets? And so many of the climate people are way negative on oil and gas. If you went to 100 of them, 99 and a half would not want to do something that had real

9:41 industrial side to it. And now it's strong and didn't understand the question. Yeah, it's like, what's the ZOR stand for? But no, it's just an interesting opportunity. And so we think there's

9:54 this niche. And then candidly with Talos, they got lucky. They Talos had the right technical expertise to drill wells and operate wells where the Texas General Land Office was comfortable that Jan

10:07 knew how to do carbon capture Alex had the tax equity understanding.

10:15 of how to really monetize these credits that are gonna be created. So they partnered together in a 5050 project and bid and then won. And that really established the company and - So do this for my

10:25 mom, 'cause my mom watches this - Totally - What actually does that mean? What does carbon capture mean? And what is the actual asset that you guys have - So - You know, kind of energy 101, if

10:38 you will, or maybe - So if you think - No, if you think oil and gas is pulling carbon out of the ground and I've been doing that for 30 years, carbon capture on the geologic side is putting it back

10:47 into the same ground - Okay - And so putting it into reservoirs where it stays there for millennia. Then you have the layers and so like, that's geologic capture. And that can be pulling it out of

10:58 the atmosphere, which is what you hear direct air capture. Now that's super expensive. That can be from emitters and that can be anything from a

11:06 renewable natural gas facility that emits, 999 CO2. you liquefy that and you've got now green or blue natural gas, like the stuff Arcaya's doing can be ethanol plants, it can be power plants.

11:23 It's basically pulling CO2 from emitters and putting it in the ground. The next layer is all the ag business. So that's everything from a project I worked on, job number four that no one knows

11:36 about. I worked with the Jonas Salk Institute and they have genetically modified and washed plants. So like row crops, sorghum, corn, canola,

11:52 penny cress, and then also like rangelands, wetlands and grasslands where the root systems are deeper, thicker and have more carbon capture. And so these 100 million plus year old evolved plants

12:05 are now building carbon capture into soils And literally it's gonna solve gigatons a year of a. the 18 gigaton problem of emissions that are incremental - 'Cause that's what I've always said is, God

12:20 created the technology to get rid of carbon if carbon's actually the problem - And these people are gonna win Nobel Prizes, it's called the Harnessing Plants Initiative, they won a Ted Audacious

12:30 Award in 2018, got Bezos funding, and they're actually a guy

12:36 just coincidentally, I knew Dave Lawrence is heading it up for them He was an exploration manager at Shell in the 90s when I was there as well, and he's gone on and done a bunch of other things,

12:48 but that is something that everybody ought to know about. Like you'll hear Subaru and at some point in the future, it'll be like THC was a few years ago, and everybody's like, what was that again?

12:58 Oh yeah, cannabis, that's a big deal. Subaru, it's gonna be a big deal.

13:02 And it really is just that emerging market of trying to solve a potential problem And the reality is carbon emissions has - value now because the government and companies like Microsoft have said, no,

13:18 we really do want to have net zero targets. And so it's voluntary and compliance depending upon where you are. And it's just from a size standpoint, I talked a lot about my career in the 90s was

13:31 one of two people hired into Shell and New Orleans coming out of the 80s where they had way too many people It got into this great little group like Origin Story wise, I was bitten by the oil bug

13:43 because I took a 500 one time petroleum engineering scholarship to Missouri Rala. And that cast my lot in life. Joined Shell, that wave was a training wave, they got me through my MBA, good buddy

13:60 Lewis Rop, who's at Barrow Hanley, left and went to Howard Wheel and told me what a financial analyst was, I had no clue what it was. And then I got hired by this great guy, Pierre Conner. who

14:12 was a drilling manager at Exxon, he left and

14:15 we joined South Coast Capital. And that was 2000, March of 2000, which was legitimately other than April of 2020, the lowest point for energy waiting in the market. And so I rode that wave

14:30 through pickering energy partners in '05. Dan had me have breakfast with this guy, hit the St. Regis, and I walked out and sent my associate a message like, who is Bobby Tudor? Because I really

14:43 had no idea I was coming over for meetings. You know who Bobby is? I'd Bobby who played basketball at Rice. Yes. Right. You know that part of the story. The gym is named Tudor Fieldhouse, right?

14:54 Yes. 'Cause he cut the mic. He is also the career leader in turnovers at Rice. At Rice. So only Rice would name their gym. So uniquely when I played basketball in high school, one of my good

15:08 friends actually had to block a shot. when I got my first rebound on our own goal. So that's probably the worst turnover that you could ever have is trying to score. I was just excited junior

15:22 varsity, like freshmen. I still, I'll never forget it. And buddy, like as I was laying it up, you've locked it - You were shooting at the wrong basket - Yes - Nice - I was just excited to get a

15:34 rebound. I was just a, I was a long snapper and a very temporary basketball player with the name hike, it's a little ironic in hindsight. But yeah, that's my - Actually the truth, we told, I

15:46 don't know if Bobby's a career leader in turnovers. It's just such a good story that I tell it. And so we'll clip this part of the podcast and put it out on Twitter and link them - No, I think you

15:55 would own it. If it's true and we can make it, you know - Yeah, exactly - You probably had a few. At one point in time, he was the leader in one game - Yeah, yeah - So that's where you can just

16:06 craft it - Well, he was actually there with Ricky Pierce And I don't know - So Ricky Pierce went on. to play in the NBA. One sixth man of the year, I want to say a couple of times. Ricky Pierce,

16:19 I mean, had a few years where he averaged 22, 23 points a game and they had to go up against U of H and that was Phi Slam at Jammer. So they were playing Clyde, a Keene, Larry Mieshaw, all those

16:33 guys.

16:36 And I may get these details a little bit wrong, but I think Rice played in the Southwest Conference tournament. They played U of H in the semis and somebody had said, If Pierce will score 40, we

16:48 can beat 'em. And Pierce scored 37 and we lost by two - Really - Yeah, that's a great story - I mean, I want to say that Rice team was like 18 and 16. Something so, so given the annals of Rice

17:02 basketball, too, it was actually a pretty good player. I got to give him credit for that - Yes, you're a Rice grad and you just told me you graduated with Maynard Holsh. the other guy that we

17:13 recruited for that wave of Tudor-Prickering Hulk. What stories do you know about Maynard - You know, it's kind of funny because I never believed in the whole Soviet Union and the United States

17:27 mutual assured destruction. I thought that was me and Maynard, it's true. It's very true. The, I don't really, none of the bad ones I can say, although I do have a picture somewhere - How has

17:41 he been bald - The, you know, he had hair in college. I've got a great picture of him actually throwing a keg and he's got short shorts on - Oh, very - Yeah, and so that's about the most

17:57 embarrassing thing. But no, Maynard was in college who he is today. We'll cry at just anything, right? And hug you, you know, no matter what. And while he wants to be your best friend -

18:08 Nowhere are kindred spirits who got this great story of where both in this weight loss competition together at Tudor Pickering. And we went for a run around rice. So we met at rice and kind of

18:19 looking as like, yeah, there's a little bit of lightning on the horizon. And legitimately, it was probably the closest time that Tudor Pickering Holt came to losing to MD simultaneously. We were

18:33 running in like six inches of water, it was raining so hard. It was not draining fast enough. And it was legitimately lightning cracking all around us. And we were just laughing our asses off.

18:44 Like two school boys just running in the rain because it was like, what are we doing out here? And then this guy, Josh Martin, came out of nowhere and won the competition. And because of that,

18:56 he was the first guy that I recruited from Tudor Pickering Holt to join hiking and energy advisors. Anyway, that's that competitive, had to be. And he's still at Pickering Energy today running the

19:08 Insights Group. So shout out to Josh. So that's cool. The, I think I have Bobby Maynard and Dan talked into coming on the podcast and just talking about the founding of two pickering, a whole,

19:23 because in two things, obviously one, it's just a great story. So we need to make sure it gets captured. But too, I've become doing this a big believer in oral histories because I truly believe

19:36 Dan will say something. Oh yeah. And then we did this and Bobby will be what? I didn't know we did that or Maynard will say, Hey, I didn't know we did that. Oh totally. Yeah, when you get

19:44 three people talking about things coming out, so hopefully we'll be able to pull that off. No pressure Maynard Maynard seems to be the lager. Oh yeah, Dan and Bobby seem to be on board with that.

19:54 But Maynard Maynard I think is, is, you know, hey, let me let me get a little distance and then we'll do it. So it's only think they both left a January. Yeah, so it's been not quite a year.

20:07 Now I am

20:09 Me and I remember whenever he came in, he was still at Goldman. So it was Tudor Pickering for a brief phase there before Holt joined - We called him the line - Right, I called myself Tudor

20:19 Pickering and then it had to go Holt - I had changed my last name to Co. So it was like Tudor Pickering Holt and Co - Oh, there we go - So that worked - That was on my fake, my business card - I

20:29 like that. I'm a name partner too - Exactly. So I was a name partner in spirit in my own head. But yeah, I was sitting there with Me and he was telling me about how great Goldman was and was like,

20:40 well, why are you even here? Like, we started just listing all the reasons that he wanted to come and I just ended it with, well, why aren't you here already then? And he said that was a tipping

20:48 point. Like it was like him just going through that process of walking through why joining Tudor Pickering would be a good thing,

20:56 tipped him over the line - 'Cause I mean, that's gotta be, I mean, so - Most phenomenal, isn't he - So Chad Michael is in Bobby Tudor's garage. You know, a pool house, I think. Pool house,

21:06 yeah. He's in the pool house. The pool house, I like garage better, but you have pool house. There might be, there's probably some garage storage at the back, I mean, it's a nice house. And

21:15 so, I mean, you gotta think, you gotta think, you know, just given how close Bobby and Maynard are, that the phone calls already happened, you know, hey, here's what we're doing, blah, blah,

21:24 blah, if not Maynard being part of that, but it did take a while. What, a year or two frame to cover? No, no, it was probably,

21:33 feels like about nine months. Okay. But again, oral history versus, I could look back, but it feels like it was like nine months of talking. And then he joined probably within a year. But yeah,

21:45 it was a great group and Ward Paul's in and Ed Gay and like Bobby just, to his credit, like had - He headed in this head - He headed in this head - Yeah, exactly - He just had the list of like -

21:58 Travis's all, yeah Now, I mean just, like a phenomenally powerful recruiting business. I mean Mark Meyer went through there Brad Olson was through there. I mean yeah, no it

22:12 was Dean was there Foster was there. Oh yeah, I know you what you wound up. I've still got his book Yeah, I still assigned book from Mr. Foster I mean founding a new field. He actually hired the

22:26 geologist out of my team at shell Bill Holman We were in the middle of shell was in the middle of this like continuous process improvement sitting in a room like this And it's a multi-disciplinary

22:38 team bills are geologists for the bullwinkle cougar unit knows bullwinkle backwards and forwards like legitimately That point I think is the biggest producing unit in shell

22:49 and Our CPI coach is sitting at the end of the table really nice lady and Bill's just been sitting there She's like bill you've been really quiet and Connie Watson was at the other end of the table

22:58 She was our boss and Bill's like yeah Dad just been sitting here thinking any looks at her and looks at Connie, he's like, Connie, I quit. And he legitimately walks up in the middle of a two, and

23:09 he's like, I'm going to this company, Newfield. And he left that day. It was the most iconic quitting that I have ever seen - Oh, that's awesome - Just like legitimately just like put his stuff

23:20 down on the table and walked out of the meeting. And we're all like, That just happened - That was so baller - That was so cool - Hopefully Bill hears this. He'll remember that story. He's on my

23:30 list of people that taught me a whole lot of stuff - I'm a Michigan tech guy - And I forget what Foster did at TPH, but I had that right - He was an advisor - He was an advisor, okay - I was still

23:40 an advisor - I was like, and he just came in and like just talked, I mean like just spouted knowledge and wisdom. Like it was a really unique process - So

23:51 get back to your current gig real quick. Kind of two things. And I saw these on Twitter this morning. One, I saw your tweet that just says, Hey, we're not getting rid of hydro. any time soon,

24:03 we're gonna have to store carbon. And then the other tweet I saw was throwing shade at the whole thing that carbon is actually a problem, that that's accepted science. You got thoughts around any

24:17 one of those two - Yeah, carbon, it's this interesting question. I'll answer the first one.

24:25 So there's a cycle of carbon that just naturally is happening and it's in the

24:31 750 gigatons of cycle, grows season to winter season, and obviously the South America and Africa are off, but there's just less landmass.

24:43 And so you have this little bit of human impact, and so you're trying to measure a small percentage on a big swing. And a friend of mine that works at NASA, the entire continent of Africa has no on

24:55 ground monitoring of carbon flows. And so it's just one big estimate. And so the reality is, is you start thinking about, we can't understand cloud physics of like how one cloud works. And so

25:08 there's this question of, do we really know, like how big of a problem we're trying to solve? I know there's a general warming trend. We know that it happens historically in time. It's ramping

25:22 faster than it has before. And so like, well, let's try to see, is there a way to tamp that down?

25:31 'Cause that's the issue. Like that's the fundamental question. So eight, the numbers are about 18 gigatons a year. I did a project for the salt folks and pulled some data together, a bunch of

25:41 white paper reading. And so you think about that, if carbon's trading for 10 a megaton, that's a 180 billion market, if it's trading for 400. You start thinking about the size of the tradable

25:57 market, if you're trying to minimize that 18. gigatons a year. And so like the world is decided, I've said this and I tweeted this morning because I was thinking about this podcast, like there's

26:09 worth and there's trades. And if people are, it doesn't mean that there is 180 billion or multiples of that market size. But if a buyer and a seller say, I want to trade around this at 20 a ton,

26:25 well, then that is a trade that just happened and there's value around that. And so that's what I'm trying to really talk through is, you know, there's a trading market that's happening on a

26:36 compliance side and a voluntary side where companies have some companies are going down the pure charismatic carbon route, which is like, I want to have something that looks great for a

26:45 sustainability report. And some companies are trying to solve their own problems. Most and that's really what we're trying to do. Like most companies that have a net zero target, know how to go

26:56 from where they are to 70-80 of the target. And then there's like this blank of technology. We're gonna apply technology to the remainder to get them to the zero. And that happens in 2030, 2040 or

27:10 whatever. But that first step of going from where they were in 2019, 2020 down to 70 less, that's where we can actually help. The shade part of it is really around

27:26 climate is local And so I think it was Peter Zihan has a great book about, whenever the Illinois basin heated up

27:37 and Southern Australia were two climates that were effectively the same, big growing basins. The warming of the Illinois basin has actually increased crop yields, has actually increased growing

27:47 season length and has actually been a beneficial impact on a big ag region. Because you have a combination of jet stream, wetness and hurricane so you get basic and. in the next several years, you

28:01 may not have a freeze. And so you might actually get to two planting seasons in the state of Illinois. That's climate that has actually made Illinois land worth more. South of Muberne, you've gone

28:14 drier. And so the issue is, is now you're having wildfires and the same change in temperature in two different places that had the same agriculturally driven world, one went up and one went down.

28:27 And so that's what I'm trying to get to, is there's a plus minus in and around what's happening as the global warms and it's regional. And I think that's one of the, and I think all of the energy

28:42 transition is regional. Iceland is gonna do a great job of having geothermal and hydro, so does Costa Rica. We've got a lot of wind and solar in Texas, but we've got a lot of natural gas too. And

28:55 so like thinking through these solutions, It's really got that. going down the 70, each region needs to have its own play. And what I find is most of politics, most of Twitter, most of these

29:08 discussions are on the fringes. And the reason I joined Strive, asset management was, the whole idea was is that people that are running money shouldn't be on the fringes as well. They ought to be

29:21 in the middle. And that's really what they're trying to do. They're trying to draw the BlackRock State Street and fan guards that were enacting shareholder and stakeholder return policies back

29:33 towards the middle. And really, I think that's what all conversation needs to be. And so what I'm just saying when I throw shade is - And what does that middle mean? Does that mean, hey, there

29:44 are benefits to hydrocarbons - No, I think it's conversation sticks, et cetera. Life expectancy, all that. And we need to counter it. Is that what you mean by the middle? Well, it's the

29:56 conversation and what I - you could take any topic and I'll take the most controversial topics or like the end state, you know, abortion was probably the most controversial topic. Pre-Rov-E weighed,

30:09 you know, as like on pro-life or on pro-choice. And it was a really simple conversation. Now, there's this question of you could take the most pro-life person in the world that I know and have a

30:21 conversation of like, shouldn't we have something for rape or incest? Like, mmm, probably Or, you know, like in Oklahoma, we've got a mutual friend where unfortunately at 15, 16 weeks, they

30:33 figured out their baby was not developing a brain. Perfect heart rate, they had to leave the state to actually solve their problem. I think all of us would say, well, that's a non-viable fetus

30:43 that's unfortunately, do you want to force the mother to carry it to term? Same thing on the pro-choice side, you'd be like, you know, 32 weeks, you know, kind of at that point where do we

30:54 really need to do that. And what I'm trying to say is the middle is this a great conversation on any topic and all of the climate issues, all of the oil and gas issues, what I keep coming to is

31:06 we're not going to change all of human behavior. We're not going to change cement, we're not going to change steel, we're not going to change agriculture, we're not going to change meat, we're

31:14 not going to change how we drive and fly and power ourselves in plastic. And so if we're not going to change everybody's behavior, well, let's find someone like the Salk Institute that's going to

31:24 figure out how to modify our ag system where you don't have to change a behavior and the soils get enriched and you have this great idea of harnessing plants. Let's find someone like carbon vert

31:36 that's going to figure out a way to put, you know, captured carbon from an emissions source into the ground in a geologic storage, you know, the Northern Lights Project. Like it's this, it's

31:46 this issue of like, if there is a market that is emerged, then there are going to be solutions without having to radically change everyone's behavior. And that's a word Yeah, and you know,

31:59 basically you in slightly different words just made the case that Ruth Bader Ginsburg made against Roe v. Wade. I mean, she was very, very pro-choice, but her take on the whole case was we're

32:15 going to do exactly what, you know, if we rule that, you know, if nine unelected people rule this, then we're going to have polarization about it. We're going to have huge fighting where if you

32:28 kind of look at what's happening in the state legislature, and political process, we will get to a point of something more reasonable. So she was actually anti the Roe v. Wade decision, even

32:40 though politically she agreed with it. And what's interesting is you kind of counter what we saw with abortion in the United States with what happened in Europe, and I'll get these stats somewhat

32:52 wrong, but generally, right, I think they're like 27 countries there and on average it's abortions legal up to call it 12 to 14 weeks. After that, it's pretty tough to get. But before that, you

33:04 can have abortion and they all did it politically. They did not do it by judicial. We'll call it fiat even though I don't want to use that language on it - No, it is - They didn't have a judicial

33:15 degree to create. And so when we think about climate, I mean, I almost feel like I can't ask you right now, hey, you know, we always say that the temperature is up at 05 since 1850. If you look

33:29 back the last 10, 000 years, 1850 was like the coldest year in the last 10, 000 years. Is that maybe why we selected that? And when did man-made carbon actually become an issue? I mean, 1950?

33:43 Is that why, you know, or something like that? So why are we including these hundred years on it? You know, but - That's really, that's the, and that's where the market side comes. And that's

33:54 really what I was trying to get to on the market like if Microsoft. is deemed that they want to hit some target, then there is a market and a value, even though we may not say your belief or my

34:05 belief, it may say that doesn't have worth. Like as an investor, you determine what you think something's worth. And then there's trades that happen all day long that are determining what the,

34:15 like immediately at that point in time two other people have assigned a value. If you decide to participate in that trade, you've now determined what you thought it was worth And all that I'm trying

34:26 to point out is the market and market influences are gonna be the things that set price. And so we're in a trend where, there was a time where if you're a carbon emitter, you thought you're gonna

34:38 get a carbon tax and it'd be a negative. Right now, if you're a carbon emitter, people are coming and saying, Hey, we've got a set of government incentives, we've got a set of voluntary buyers,

34:48 you've got the right attributes, you've got that opportunity. We actually want to take your carbon, liquify it, and then go put it into it. a geologic storage site someplace, and they're willing

34:59 to buy it from you. And that's what we're thinking through. And like that's the value of where the market is going - No, and I actually appreciate you saying that 'cause from my vantage point of

35:11 sitting here being unemployed dude that - You're mostly employed. You may not be paid - Now Colin walks in and says, Hey Chuck, can you help me on this? Nah, sounds like a job. Sorry, not gonna

35:21 do it. I need to go back to nap time on the couch But I don't know that I get to see the insights in there, but I will say this, it's very obvious that the market wants us. And this is not in

35:34 terms of reduction in CO2 emissions. No question the market wants it and that people are willing to pay for it - I mean, carbon's life. I've also taken that stance, like I mean, the majority of

35:45 us is carbon, nitrogen, some oxygen, a lot of hydrogen and water. But like the reality is, carbon-based life forms. not a negative, there's actually value to it. If you're doing utilization,

35:58 probably some of the best grow places in Europe, they're actually pumping extra CO2 into

36:06 their grow buildings. I'm sure they're doing that in Canada's farms. There's all sorts of places that you can actually utilize and get value. And that's where the path diverges. There's a little

36:19 bit of religion to all the fringes But I do think the silent majority, if they can just understand, this is why this is emerging. Here's where things are going. If you do these things, then it

36:31 actually doesn't disrupt every single part of your transportation system, your plastics, the way you grow food, the amount of fertilizer you use, the fact that you wanna eat meat, the fact that

36:41 everybody in the world wants to eat meat, the fact that there's 600 million people in the world that don't have electricity. All those things don't have to change. And all you have to do is provide

36:50 solutions that move you towards that path that is improvement. So what would really be cool, do we have that in a white paper somewhere - It's all up here. Like candidly, that's part of the thing

37:03 that I think we, and carbon, the benefit that I think we have is real credibility. And so like we're looking at projects and we really do believe, and to credit Alex Tiller, he did this on the

37:16 solar side. You know, in our head is a flow chart of here are the ways that you get to your targets Here's a way that if you wanted to, in Hawaii, when he was building that, he would explain all

37:26 the steps. You want to do it yourself, we'll teach you how to do it. We'll walk you through economics. And, but if you don't want to be the company that does a classics permit and finds the right

37:37 partners and does the, you know, measurement and verification of it, well, we can do that. But we're happy to teach. And I think that's some of the conversation of like, just making it

37:48 hyper-hyper-transparent that will help move these things forward. And I think that's where our little niche will be. There isn't a dominant position, but it's just the education process. And I do

38:04 think that white paper is clearly something we'll be writing - Yeah, 'cause I mean, I think at the end of the day, I said this on last week's podcast, and I was just making up numbers. If we can

38:15 get to this world, 'cause where I think the science is on this is we ignore the rapid rise in temperature at our own peril. I mean, that's unusual, so we should be watching it. Do we know it's

38:30 Manmade CO2? I don't know about that yet. I mean, because you're right, it's a small amount of just what happens in nature with CO2. I mean, we were in an ice age 10, 000 years ago, and that

38:43 had nothing to do with Manmade CO2

38:48 But Harold Hamm told me this once, and I tend to think about climate models this way. broke. And a lot of the historical models you go back, they don't fit with what has actually happened in the

38:60 last 15 years, you ought to be refining it. And what's happening is, is more and more people are thinking about this and projects are going forward, the models are getting better. It's like

39:08 hurricane tracking. Right now, we've got spaghetti against the wall for this thing that's in the Gulf. But it does get better as you start moving closer and closer. And so I think we have an idea

39:19 of where things are in the nearer term It's these long dated trends.

39:25 You just have a ton of huge variability. And I think that's where what's going to be interesting, as you start seeing projects move forward, whether or not that is, there's companies that are

39:35 doing things in the coasts of Africa, one company that I've talked with, and they're going to actually do the monitoring on site because you have to verify what you're doing. What you're going to

39:44 get is more data. And then as that data feeds in, you'll have a better understanding. And so it's this process of Everybody wants to know everything all at once right now in almost any topic. Like

39:57 here's your solution. And the way I think about it is, as more capital goes in, we'll actually have a better understanding and then you'll be able to make more informed decisions as we go forward.

40:09 And that I think is where

40:13 things get exciting - And my goal on that is I'm gonna spend 5 trillion doing that, not 50 trillion You know, 'cause I think that that's the real worry we have. And then there's the libertarian

40:27 leanings to me that where the tin foil had at night that say we don't need to give governments more power. So I actually, people have always made fun of carbon offsets. I've actually been a fan.

40:39 I'm like, those are two voluntary private organizations. You know, obviously big, bad government sitting around the corner, but you know - Well, it's gonna happen to do something I mean, it's

40:49 going to be. Like right now there aren't good futures curves. So how do you hedge? How do you build insurance, you know, around these projects if you're buying something? But what will happen is,

40:59 is you're going to develop a futures curve for carbon around these voluntary. And so you may not have the bilateral agreement of a trade that's negotiated. You're a buyer, I'm a seller of carbon.

41:11 We figure out the margin and you buy it for 8 a ton or 12 a ton. But once someone builds a futures to that, the CFTC is gonna regulate it And so you're gonna have a adjacency regulating the carbon

41:22 markets, even if it only is a voluntary market in North America. And the reason that you'll have that futures curve generated is you're gonna have to ensure, if you're buying, you know, hundreds

41:33 of thousands of tons per year and putting five, 10, 15 million into those at a

41:39 minimum or you do a 400 contract on that as opposed to a 10, you're gonna wanna have a way to ensure that At least some level and to have viability of insurance you'll have a future. And so that

41:52 futures market that then emerges, it's what it'll do is then it'll contract the commissions paid between the buyer and the seller. And it's this really like cool, it's like as you get older, you

42:04 have enough wisdom to see things repeating. I lived through, you know, Hans Myers, who is one of the other key partners that hiking in and, you know, shout out to Hans. He was a bond trader in

42:14 the 80s before going back to law school. Margins on bond trades went from wide to nothing, and there's only a few bond traders out there. Margins on stocks, we used to get 12 pennies whenever I

42:25 started in 2000 on some small, you know, cap stocks like Petroquest.

42:31 Because there was no buyer. There's no buyers and sellers, but we found them and like we'd get that commission. Now it's mills. And so what's going to happen in all markets is that cost of trade

42:42 is going to go down. It's happening in real estate. You know, does everybody still pay 6?

42:48 You watch selling OC and they're not all getting 6 percent anymore on the bigger trade dollar amounts. So it's a I don't know if you watch Selling OC, but it's a phenomenal show. No, I have a lot

43:00 of guilty pleasure. Yeah, Dan Pickering had a survivor, but I got into the real estate selling California and all the house hunters and all that stuff. It's been my guilty pleasure for years But I

43:14 totally missed because it's whatever 20 years old was CSI. So my youngest daughter and I've picked up CSI and we've started watching it. You're in Vegas? Yeah, they're still in Vegas and you know,

43:29 it's funny because

43:32 we would see these people on the show and I would go, oh, that's got to be the killer. And Kelly's like, how's that? And I go, because that actor is Dwight from the office - I mean, successful

43:45 now - And he's like a big deal, so he's gotta be the killer. And then you go, No, no, no, that was shot in 2004. And he wasn't white, she was a nobody - Yeah, he was a nobody, so it was a

43:56 bit part. And I say this with love to my friend, Jeff Ross, the standup comedian, they do an episode where Jeff Ross is a standup comedian and gets killed. And I'm like, Jeff has hair. Oh my

44:09 God, how old is this - It's awesome - So how'd you get into like, you do a bunch of music stuff, like you've done a bunch of other things as well. What was the emergence of that hobby or passion -

44:21 Yeah, you know, so I just like music. I have no musical talent. I can't sing - You didn't come to the crawfish boil we did - No, he tried to sing - So, yeah, Lindsay L, the country singer,

44:36 came and played the crawfish boil. and she let me get on stage and sing bad reputation with her. So there are videos of that out on Twitter. And it's just for watching that. Oh yeah, I'm just

44:48 miserable. So I can't sing, I can't play an instrument and all that, but just have always liked music. And what's fun is, you know, some people like to go play golf, some people like to do this

45:01 or that. I like to go be a roadie for a musician, you know? Carry a guitar around And, you know, back in my day growing up, Aerosmith, Van Halen, they go trash the hotel room. You get on tour

45:15 with an artist pretty quick and you figure out, guess what? It's a business now. Lobby calls at eight o'clock. We got to do this. The radio show interviews at 315. I got to do this podcast at

45:26 this time. It's actually kind of boring. I mean, I'm sure it would be like if a rock star followed around a research analyst. Really? This is what you do. Yeah, it's exciting Now what was your

45:36 favorite concert?

45:39 Uh, top two. So I remember taking my oldest kiddo. Um, she was

45:48 10 years old at

45:51 the time to New Orleans to go see Van Halen. And we sat on the front row. And this, this was, this was 10 years ago. So let's call it 2011, 2012. They had just gotten back with David Lee Roth.

46:06 They released the new album there And we're on the front row. Charlie has absolutely no clue who Van Halen is, but getting to go to New Orleans with dad and skipping a day of school. Right. So we

46:19 show up two cool things about that concert, cool on the gang open to actually. And everyone in cool in the gang thought it was so cool that this little kiddo was sitting on the front row wearing the

46:29 big ear, ear muffs. And so they all came down and hung out with Charlie and we were handing try with like drumsticks and big and all that. So that was amazing. That was kind of cool. Van Halen

46:41 comes out and dads, this is dad's favorite band, right - What they really are. DLR, I mean, it's the real, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I would love to go get a beer with Sammy Hagar, but that's not

46:52 Van Halen - I get it - So anyway, Eddie comes out and just crunches into some of the Charlie Williams over. Hey, dad, that guitar player's really good. That's why we're here. That's why we're

47:00 here - That is exactly it - So that was a really

47:05 cool show - You know, there've been

47:08 so many of them kind of through history.

47:14 I think actually seeing nine inch nails play numbers, the club in Houston that holds about 800. And this was nine inch nails had just been out on tour with David Bowie on Bowie's final tour. You

47:29 know, maybe it was the third to the last tour, right - Yeah, exactly - You know, the final tour and all this. And so anyway, they played, they played, you know, kind of one show at numbers

47:43 and somehow was able to get a ticket to it. So that was really cool to see them in the South. That's awesome. And it wasn't, it was right around the same time too, that a startup band, new young

47:56 band, by the drummer of Nirvana, the Foo Fighters played numbers. And I went and saw - Dave Groutland's awesome I went and saw that show, that was cool. I mean, seeing music in a smaller venue -

48:10 No, that's just really cool - As you were talking about that, I got lucky, I used to, I got it, one of the things that I found in life was saying yes to things tends to lead to, you're the guy

48:23 that says yes to things and then you get invited to cooler, cooler things. Plus you gotta have a little bit of money. You don't have to have a lot of money, but you gotta have a little bit of

48:31 money. And so this group of guys out of the East Coast, couple clients and they're just a bunch of. friends, rent a rail car, luxury rail car, butler, chef, and go to the Super Bowl most years.

48:42 And so I went out to San Francisco with them. We rode across the Rockies, beautiful, beautiful. I didn't go to that Super Bowl game, but we went to a pre-party where run DMC started at the same

48:56 type of venue, small warehouse. I think it's like Mark Cuban through it. And Snoop Dogg was the middle act. And Red Hot Chili Peppers was the main act. And it was like, legitimately, like, me

49:10 to you to, right, I mean, fleet, like, and, and fortunately, or for him, he was somewhat clothed for this crowd. I mean, I've seen him before. I think it was a jazz fest, bare ass, bass

49:25 low. So you didn't see full schlong until he started jumping. But yeah, the Red Hot Chili Peppers are by far my number one experience. experience. That's really cool. I got backstage and have,

49:41 it's a horrific for me picture because it was, it was long hair down to my shoulders that I kind of pulled back. So it's, it's mullet like, but I've got a picture with Anthony Kietas that I got to

49:52 go backstage and say, I'll just go ahead and be obnoxious because you brought up the money thing and my audience knows that I used to be rich. Now I'm very poor. So these were back in the rich

50:03 Chuck days. I used to have a plane and I fly. I had a G 200. Oh, very nice. Yeah. In real plane. I had a real plane. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And before that I had a citation Excel. Okay.

50:17 And so what I figured out when it comes to music is if you're the rolling stones, if you're you two, you're flying around from show to show and you're staying at the four seasons or the rits, right?

50:31 Yeah. If you're anywhere kind of below that level. just given the economics a touring, 'cause it's the only way you can make money these days, it's still low margin business. I mean, you know,

50:45 someone playing the Toyota Center will sell, call it 20, 000 tickets, whatever, 75 bucks, 100 bucks a ticket. They may only, when you pay all your equipment, pay your road crew, pay your band,

50:58 they may only make like 20 or 25 of that. And it's, that percent, falls dramatically the smaller the venue you have. So I mean, you honestly, if you're a band that plays about 7, 000 people,

51:14 it's tough to make money - Yeah - Even that, so what I have found out with my plane is, if you can get to the artist and say, You wanna fly - You wanna fly and spend the night in the hotel, you

51:25 don't have to go get in the

51:28 bus, 'cause that's the way, that's the way they save money as they get off. the stage, they go get in a bus, they sleep in the bus on the way to the next venue. And then they shower at the venue,

51:40 you know, and that's that's how it all works. You don't. And but if you can get to them and say, spend the night in a hotel and I'll just fly you to the next city. And they have to do basically

51:49 back to back days. Because you rent the equipment whether you use it or not, right? You rent the bus, whether you use it or not, the van, you know, whatever. And so if you can get to them,

51:60 you can be a borderline axe murder. And they're like, that would be so much better than the, the borrowing, the bus. And so that's kind of how I snuck my way into being a roadie. Well, hey,

52:11 we'll just take my plane. So you bought your way to be a, I bought my way. That's a good story. Yeah. So like the, I call flying a, it's like cheap adrenaline. I've been flying a system 172R

52:28 out of Sugar Land. Actually, I probably flown over your place in Richmond.

52:32 Well, you might have seen, I kept my plane out there did - I probably did - So I'm just going to be totally obnoxious. I can't believe I'm doing this, but anyway, my G200 painted it like Eddie

52:42 Van Halen's guitar - No shit - Did you ever see that plane out there - So you're off to the far right then. Like we were off to the left - Yeah, yeah, yeah - I think I did see that - Yeah, the

52:50 great western, I think is where - I know exactly. That was your flam - That was my plane - This is obnoxious. You might want to edit this out - Yeah, whatever But yeah, you saw that - Oh shit -

53:03 That's amazing - So I had to get it painted when I bought it. And I was like - What's the post sale market for a plane - It's

53:15 one of those things that like - Is it like buying a boat - Yeah, it's like the happiest day is the day you buy it, the second happiest day is the day you get rid of it - Toodly, it's the whole

53:23 thing. If you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it - Exactly - Yeah, that was funny They brought me like, you know, I had a designer that would come up with things and I was like,

53:33 man, I'll do something cool. There's no woman in my life to tell me, no, I can't do it. So I'm like, Oh, this would be great. And finally, I told the guy, go stare at Eddie Van Halen's

53:42 guitar for an hour and then come up with a design. And that's not like they just strap it. That's full painted on. That's full painted. Like, yeah, that's not your paste on. Yeah. Straight.

53:54 That's really cool. Yeah. That was my plane. Don't have any more on poor now. So it's out of job. Yes But kind of the sugar land airport's great. Oh, I mean, it's so it's a cute. I mean, I

54:06 mean, it's actually pretty easy to fly in and out of.

54:10 Yeah, I've got to figure out if I want to actually keep doing it. It's a little bit like once you have kids and then you start thinking about, like, OK, I've got three kids that are 15 and they I

54:23 couldn't fly with all of them in the size plane. And so it's like, do I want to upgrade and think through like a two engine plane and then you got all sorts of different dynamics. And it just

54:32 blossomed into this decision tree of like, okay, I'll just stop completely.

54:38 Because this is going to get out of hand. I'll have any Van Halen jets someday.

54:43 And it'll be the only thing I own. I'll be just begging people. Oh, I used to tell the kids, you don't go to college if dad has to sell the plane. I'm sorry. It's the last thing I guys. But

54:53 nope. Yeah. So I do have one plug. This is the only plug that I actually have So two of my kids go to the Energy Institute High School. It's a STEM school. HISD, 60 of the kids are Title I. So

55:09 they are low income qualified for some assistance. And the school has 800 students of capacity. And because we couldn't recruit through COVID, they're at 680 students. And so like when you drive

55:22 by Bel Air or Lamar and they're building out the high schools and they're overflowing at the seams This is late in the podcast, but. If you're interested in a tour and you have any inkling towards

55:34 interest in science or technology, you've got a great robotics team, got a great, you know, Palm Squad. It is a great school. It's in the third ward. So I mean, demographics, I'm still, I

55:47 mean, it's kind of a, you know, 30, 40 African-American, 30, 40

55:53 Latino, and then the rest are kind of Asian and Caucasian But really trying to get more kids to consider going to school there because every student is about 4, 000, 5, 000 a year that you get

56:06 from the state. And so that's a 5, 600, 000 shortfall. And what's the name of the school - The Houston. So it's the Energy Institute High School. And I actually think that there's a degree of

56:21 like, we've got laser cutters in a work area. You know, if you're a CEO, private equity, you know, if you have an idea of your company wanting to donate. There's a bunch of things that can be

56:30 done that can improve pulling middle school students in for craft work where they can learn programming, they can learn how to actually run machines and really get a full exposure to this great

56:43 cohort based training. It's a super, we're super happy. Two of our kids go there, one goes to the baking. I'm a big public school person. I was a public school person all the way through. But

56:55 yeah, the plug for the Energy Institute High School could really use more kids going there, but really also some corporate sponsorship. It's mainly friends and family at this point - So I'll plug

57:09 back. I'm on the board of the entity called YDC, the Youth Development Center. We run an after school literacy program. We say it's for kids from first grade to eighth grade, but it's really kids

57:21 first to about fourth grade. And we're over in the fifth ward. We've got, I'd have to check. 'cause COVID did weird things to the numbers, but we have capacity to have

57:35 125 kids in the program. Can I get with you to organize the tour - Oh sure - So these kids - No, I mean, those kids graduating come by, like the group tours, parent tours. I'm actually the, I'm

57:46 the president of the PTO by, it was just an interesting process of, I'll probably be at for a couple of years - Process of the elimination - Yeah, it was like, everybody take a step forward back -

58:01 What - I guess that's me. No, that's great. Actually, we just had our first meeting, we'll have our open house, we had it last on Wednesday. We're doing in-house a lot more, but yeah, we'll

58:12 definitely hook up in like any of the kids that are in that grade level that are going to be, ascending into high school. We'd love to, and Lori, our principal's incredible, we've got great staff,

58:25 but yeah, we can totally get that And then the second. The plug is I would love to figure out,

58:33 I don't know what it is, I don't wanna stay schtick 'cause that has a negative connotation, but there is some educational thing we can do for kids just to say, hey, energy's

58:49 okay. And somewhat take the narrative back. And here's why I don't think we're that far off even though most people in our business are so defeatist in terms of, oh, everybody hates us, I don't

59:02 even wanna talk to anyone. I opened some Zoom rooms this summer and just had college kids come on and say, Why didn't you go into the energy business? Or, Why are you going into the energy

59:12 business? I wanna hear this. And I think 75 of what I heard was kinda what I expected, but these are not deep held beliefs Even though, I mean, my kids would vote to get rid of hydrocarbons

59:25 tomorrow if they could.

59:28 It's not that deep held. It's actually an uneducated view. And the one kid that told me a story actually gave me hope and why I think all of us in this industry need to do a

59:42 lot more talking, sharing, just proving we're human. Call it a 24 year old engineer, been out of school a couple of years, went to college in Canada, worked for Canadian company. He said,

59:54 Check, you wanna know what the problem is? He said, My freshman year, sun course since an engineer to come talk at my school, 55 year old white guy. And the title of the presentation is finding

1:00:07 oil and gas. Yep, 20 people show up. Same thing, sophomore year, same thing my junior year. Said, My senior year, they send a 27 year old Indian engineer and they title the presentation,

1:00:22 utilizing AI to image the subsurface. 200 people showed up. One, just 'cause that sounds cool, said by the end of the guy's talk, there were 400 people in the room. I mean, it was jam packing.

1:00:35 Everybody was texting the friend. 'Cause the guy just went up there and went, Holy shit, this is great. I've never seen this many people. Look at all this cool stuff I'm doing. He just went on

1:00:44 and waxed about it. And they wound up recruiting one kid a year, two kids a year until that senior year, and they got like 15, 20 - You all ought to be doing hype videos - Yeah, we got two

1:00:56 graduates that are in the alum. I've talked to them, ones at Harvard, ones at Stanford from the Energy Institute High School. One guy just took his third year off to work at a startup doing

1:01:06 machine learning AI work. But what he learned originally, kind of in and around Python, he started in the robotics class. But yeah, like getting, I almost envisioned like a pre-football season,

1:01:19 start a game like

1:01:22 hype video for the energy industry where you'd have young people, people entering the business. you know, y'all could lay that up in a heartbeat. Colin's gotten on TikTok over about the last three

1:01:32 months. I'm not on TikTok. And I'm not either. Well, I am, but I don't do the TikTok. But Colin did a quick little video on just how drill that works. It's got over a million views. Oh,

1:01:45 that's awesome. And the comments are great because you get the comments about, oh, you're in the environment like you would expect. But you got a lot of people going, never knew that's how that

1:01:53 worked. That's really cool And so - No, I think that's that connection. It's those little things that I think matter. And really, I've had this discussion. And I might have to hop in a second.

1:02:05 But if I was going to boil down carbon capture and what my vision of the world is, I'm going to snap my finger. And everything that is hydrocarbon related is going to be net zero. And so we can

1:02:20 keep drilling everything that we're doing. We can produce oil. We can produce gas We're going to produce it in the best places. So it's going to be in the US, it's going to be in Canada. Saudi

1:02:28 Arabia is pretty clean, Norway is pretty clean. It won't be in Venezuela unless they clean up. It won't be in Africa. It won't be in Russia. But like we can snap our finger and we'll neutralize

1:02:38 the amount of carbon that's being emitted from the hydrocarbon industry. And then there's no argument against it. And that's I think the key and the message is like, that finger snap at some point

1:02:50 in our lives, that will have happened. And we can say the oil and gas business can keep doing what it's doing. There's enough people that want to offset it. There's going to be transitions.

1:03:01 Electric vehicles are kind of fun to drive. It's a secret. Like they go real fast, real fast. But like, there's a degree of all of these like hard changes of the industry that's so fearful. The

1:03:14 challenges and the knowledge of how to drill things, how to build facilities, how to do the geology, do the monitoring like it is a layup.

1:03:26 And every company ought to be thinking about it as a way to just, you know, change the narrative. And if you tell that what's interesting is in the 99 out of 100, good friend of mine's in New

1:03:37 Orleans as liberal anti-oiling gas. Gandaly is family made money in the oil and gas sector - That's usually where they breed them - But I was like, what if I told you, I snap my finger and

1:03:48 everything that you consume has no impact on climate. And at vapor lock them, like literally his brain kind of froze and he couldn't say, well, I'd be in favor of that. And that, I think, is

1:03:59 this gradual shift that I think is going to happen through the work of like what we're trying to do and having these conversations - So I really appreciate you coming on. We'll have you back because

1:04:11 I think the two things that need to happen for the finger snap are one, the white paper, and then it's incumbent upon folks like us, Digital Wildcatters, to put that message out there. in

1:04:23 multiple different ways so that everybody sees it from kids down to the gray-haired scientist. So I'll commit that we'll do our part on that if you can give us the right map. And then I think

1:04:34 secondarily something that would be really interesting, it would take hours so we won't do it here, but it's just how much of that is technology on the come? How much do we have to do? 'Cause I

1:04:46 have another big belief that we'll talk about when you come back is we need way more shots on goal with that technology And in fact, I think that's the best thing we could be doing

1:04:57 here is shots on goal. So cool man. Appreciate you coming - Yeah, glad we got it together - Yeah, good seeing you.