Chuck Yates Needs A Job

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1:14 So learn if your company is eligible for a free, three month trial. It's ironsight, S-I-G-H-Tappdw Click the link in the description and let them know that we sent you. Hey everybody, welcome to

1:24 Chuck Yates Needs a Job the Podcast. Two things first, foremost. Thank you so much for all the kind words on last week's podcast. Episode number one of Chuck Yates Needs a Wife. Anyway, I

1:38 thought it was a cool piece of content to make. Hope it helped some people. And just by the feedback I got from text, direct messages, I think it accomplished that So I really, really appreciate

1:50 that. I'm editing episode two as we speak, and I'll get it out as soon as I can. Point two, as many of you know, I do another podcast at Digital Wildcatters called BDE, Big Digital Energy. I do

2:07 it with Kirk Coburn, Mark Meyer, and Colin McClellan, and we call it the weekly summary of the energy business for people that think Jim Kramer sucks. So anyway, what I'm gonna do this week is

2:19 actually play that episode for you, 'cause I think it's a really good summary of what happens each week, and if you like it, go to wherever you subscribe to podcasts and subscribe to Big Digital

2:32 Energy. We do it weekly, it's good stuff, and I hope you enjoy.

2:39 I

2:59 What's going on, Digital Wildcat is welcome to another week of BDE, big digital energy. Got the full crew in here with us, except we got the digital version of Kirk. I mean, we're living in the

3:10 future here. We got Kirk on the computer over here. So he's been calling in from the beach house and then tuck it. But now we can actually see his ugly mug

3:21 on the computer with us. So Kirk A real deal and I promise next week, audience will actually get the filters we used to use on him when he was in the studio and we'll get it put on that. We need to

3:33 get a cut out of Kirk to sit over here in this chair to fill them for them. But anyways, this is what my wife got me for. So I'll just maybe you can just show you maybe you can just do I'll just be

3:46 that.

3:48 Yeah. I was running through I was running through the pitch deck the other day and Julie saw that picture. She's like, What's up with that picture? I was like, I don't know. But

3:57 Dude, it's Nantucket, it's a whaling community. Like captains, the highest level on the island. If you captain one of those ships and, you know, for those Trekkies, which I wasn't, I was a

4:08 Star Wars guy, but Captain Kirk, I mean, come on guys. Sorry, I didn't. It all makes sense. As I feel like we're going where no man has gone before. Sorry to make all those connections, I

4:19 apologize. All right, what have we got on the original? What have we got on the agenda today? I saw a rundown come through, but who wants to take the lead on it? Mark, why don't you kick us off

4:31 with the

4:33 first item? I mean, the fact that Mark, you connect me to Domburg, is if you don't subscribe to Domburg, you should. He wrote a great article over the weekend called Stuck in the Middle with You.

4:48 Really kicking off, talking about Norway. And so one thing that's interesting about Norway,

4:54 you ever been there, it's a very clean country. 90 of their electricity comes from carbon-free hydro power. They've got over 1, 700 hydroelectric dams and over 1, 000 water reservoirs. So it's

5:09 real interesting. And they have so much backup power, they supply equivalent to 70 of its annual consumption just in backup. So they naturally export all other power to other nations in Europe

5:23 because they have so much access

5:27 What is interesting though, is that because of this, what is known as the resource curse like countries that are rich in resources, if you don't sort

5:41 of put, when times are good, if you don't put money away into like a pension fund which the Norwegians did, they have a government pension fund global that is now 136

5:53 trillion, which is equivalent to about 250, 000. per person in Norway. So I think what Dünberg was just highlighting is like, this is the most renewable country there is. However, interestingly

6:05 enough, most of their money comes from their huge oil reserves in the North Sea. And they also consume a lot of oil. I did not realize this, but in 2020, they consumed over a hundred million

6:19 barrels, which doesn't seem like a lot compared to the United States But if you look at it on a per-person basis, Norwegians consume 187 barrels per person, and we consume about 21 barrels per

6:33 person. So I'm shocked that Norwegians burn some of its oil, but Mark, I know there's some other great pieces coming out of that article. I'm curious where all of that oil is used. I remember I

6:46 picked up one of my co-workers, and he's from Norway, and I picked him up in a Ford Expedition from the airport, and he could just not believe how big a Ford Expedition This thing's like a fucking

6:57 boat. Is that how much do these things cost? Well, I just couldn't believe how big the cars were here. And so. Well, here's the deal is they've gone to, I think last few years, 90 some odd

7:08 percent electric vehicle sales. Yeah. I think it's 75 of their existing car fleet though, is internal combustion engines bringing up just the whole point of when we build a car today, it lasts

7:23 freaking forever And if it doesn't last here, another point that was made is that our end of life in the West, in the US, ends up being the beginning of life for the same vehicle that is exported

7:37 to mostly developing countries where the life of that ice vehicle, largely the ice vehicle is extended unless for some reason it's been total or whatnot. Yeah, I mean, you live here in Texas, you

7:48 see cars being towed down to Mexico all the time I remember someone. tweeted a while back. It's like, Hey, what's it doing with all these cars being towed on the interstate and Texas. And it's

7:59 like, yeah, they're all being towed down to Mexico. And I mean, these are like really run down ice vehicles. You look at the Middle East, I think one of the best advertisements ever for Toyota

8:07 is anytime you see terrorist cells, they're always running, you know, that mid 90s Toyota pickup trucks, like, they don't even have parts available for those. And they're still running. Well,

8:18 and we need to get to Cuba, because we've had the embargoes, and whatever the 60s, and supposedly Cuba is all 1950s US. They're cool though. They have so many good wrench guys down there. Yeah.

8:32 Yeah, I was down there about four years ago when the window was open and

8:38 those vehicles are still in operation because of a lot of Russian components. So yeah. Yeah, it's cool. I like the shells of those cars. Like you have the shell, Essentially the body, but right

8:51 that the engines are just of boat-ish matches. So back to the, I think the larger point of what Bloomberg was describing is that Norway presents as near perfect of an electric transformation or

9:07 electrification as you can find anywhere, yet we're still seeing several years into it. You know, 90 of their power is hydro. The other 10 is quote, unquote, renewables. They've got a lot of

9:21 surplus, clean power, et cetera. They're still consuming a tremendous amount of hydrocarbon. Well, that's a, I'm just like, I'm super confused though. I

9:32 love how you put it on a per per person basis, Kirk, because he said it was, what did you say? It was 21 barrels per American And then basically 19 versus 21 barrels. Yeah, I mean, 187 versus

9:48 214. Yeah, I mean, you're looking at a pretty. level use on a per person basis. And so I'm trying to figure out where that where that usage is coming from. If the majority of their electric

10:04 vehicles or or vehicle sales are electric vehicles, if their power generation is coming from hydro, it's like, where is that oil being used? It's a lot of water around Norway as well. Yeah, a

10:17 lot of boats. I think what's interesting is, and I think like Domburg wrote this article, because the IEA forecast has come out for sort of the midterm view of oil and gas, and Domburg even quoted,

10:31 which I remember when Kathy Wood, the founder and CEO of ARK Invest, made a great tweet in July of 2020. She said, Oil demand has probably hit a secular peak last year, and thanks to EVs, now is

10:47 in secular decline. Though Arc has no formal forecast, I believe that oil prices are on their way back to 12. The level reached out there to the 1973 oil cartel crisis or lower now that EVs are

11:01 taking off, end quote. So I think Duneberg's rolling his eyes and just saying this is ridiculous. Well, the other thing - Absolutely got her face ripped off by that quote. She put it out. As she

11:11 should. The other point Duneberg makes is one, we talked about it earlier, just the embedded base of internal combustion engines and actually even though EV cars are still 90 of sales there, the

11:28 10 of internal combustion engine sales is more than the decline in internal combustion engines going off the road. So you're still increasing the number of internal combustion engines there, despite

11:40 all the electric vehicle sales. The other thing is gasoline and oil are not exactly the same. gasoline's a by-product of oil. We have a lot of byproducts of oil, right? And Doomburg makes the

11:55 point of whatever comes out of that barrel, we're gonna find somewhere to use it and sell it. Like 90-some-out-person of the roads in America. Hell yeah. Assfall, right? Yeah. Byproduct of oil.

12:06 So even if we stop using gasoline in the future, we're still gonna be using oil products. Well, and we've talked about it before too. We're gonna make electric roads, Chuck It's addressed in the

12:18 piece, which is - It's addressed in the piece, which is - There's a little cars, you know? There's an explosion. By selling that kind of make a point. There's an explosion in mining if this

12:32 global market penetration of EVs continues and all things battery and electrification. Well, mining is largely driven by diesel. I didn't see a quantification of what kind of the in-game state

12:44 would be for, you know, the green. the fully green transition to EVs and batteries, but that that incremental diesel demand that comes with that is not trivial. Yeah, you're not plugging into an

12:57 electric socket in the middle of the Congo to dig out your precious metals, right? Yeah, when I hear a funny story about roads and talking about tar, we were in Midland last week for Energy Tech

13:07 Night and we're coming in from Big Lake and they're doing some construction on the road. And all of a sudden there's this coil tubing truck in front of me or nitrogen truck and stuff starts flying

13:17 out from it. I'm like, what the hell is it dropping off? This is what was happening is the sun's melting the road and this coil truck is literally ripping the tar up and ripping the road off chunks

13:29 of the road. And when we're stuck, you can just see the tar just, I mean, gooey just stuck between the truck tire and the road. And anyways, for miles, he's just going down this road. I mean,

13:39 just tearing up this brand new road that they built. And one One the of of the guys that's holding the sign, we finally passed by him and he's just like. He's looking at it and then you can just

13:46 see him, his eyes go all the way down the road. And instantly he just realizes that this truck just completely fucked this road that they were building. Um, so anyways, I was, uh, you know,

13:56 took our team and say, yeah, that's how hot it gets on West Texas. It's just literally starts melting the roads. So yeah, I'm going to, but I'm pretty fascinated by this. Uh, what I love about

14:06 energy is that every once in a while you get it, you get a point made like this. It's like, wow, I didn't even think about that because I know Norway is, um, an oil state in terms of production,

14:16 but I've known that they've been really advanced when it comes to electrification. But I didn't know that their oil consumption was still that high, um, on a per person basis. And so that's, I

14:28 mean, it's a pretty compelling argument for, well, it's, it's, it's that I think the argument is just, okay, everybody that's pushing electrification. Why is this not going to happen

14:40 everywhere else?

14:43 And if so, it comes back to the point I always try to make here is, okay, maybe electric vehicles are marginally better for the environment, etc. Is it worth the trillions? Or could we do better

14:55 things with the trillions? Because at the end of the day, there's only so much money we can spend on this. You know, pick your battles. Well, I want to ask you boys a question because maybe I'm

15:04 in a conspiracy theorist to some degree after watching Joe Rogan and Robert Kennedy Jr. And I'm just seeing things in a little bit of a jaded light. But I read the IEA forecast and it seems like

15:20 they're projecting, they're not forecasting, they're projecting. I worked for an executive earlier in my career and he told me, and I was in charge of forecasting demand for computer sales. And

15:34 he says, Kirk, we don't forecast, we project, like you tell us what we're going to do and we'll go figure out how to do it. So it almost looks like the IA is doing that 'cause they're predicting

15:45 the demand for transport fuels derived from oil such as gasoline will be the first to peak. And they're saying it's gonna peak this decade. And it's accelerated by COVID-19 pandemic. And now you

15:59 tell me what this means. The energy crisis triggered by Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Tell me why the energy crisis of Russian Ukraine has anything to do with people going away from oil. Well, one,

16:13 they have that backwards. The Russian Ukraine war wasn't a catalyst for an energy crisis. I think that that energy policy without further Russian invasion. So anyways, but I'm highly skeptical of

16:29 any forecast projections, whatever you wanna call it from them because one, I don't think that

16:38 government bodies or just societies or actually understands how much energy we are going to need for some of the technological advancements that are happening right now. In particular, computational

16:51 power for artificial intelligence, machine learning, Bitcoin mining, you know, the last few years, everyone over the Xbox network. Yeah, the Xbox network, you know, the last few years,

17:00 everyone's been bashing Bitcoin mining for its power consumption. And you nash, Chuck, I've been there like, Hey, what about the Xbox network? What about all this computational power for machine

17:10 learning? And now you're starting to really see, like, people on Twitter, like, Holy shit, this is gonna take so much energy. Now you want to talk about space exploration? How are we ever

17:19 going to be a multi planet species and go colonize? We don't talk about that. I just think that energy demand has the potential to be infinite. And I don't think that there is this cap on it. And

17:33 as long as that wire axis keeps scaling up of energy demand, oil and gas is going to have to be a part of that. And that also kind of terrifies me, you know, just for the future, because the oil

17:44 and gas, leads to our knowledge is a finite resource. And so, you know, it's all finite. Even, you know, the raw materials in the green supply chain, we've seen and talked about mining stories

17:59 where there's more intensive methods of refining and processing minerals from degrading ore quality in copper and nickel, for example, the reason they're having to get into nastier processes, right?

18:14 And the most fundamental of all of what you just said about energy growth, energy demand growth being virtually infinite, you know, between now and 2050, we add another 16 billion people to the

18:28 planet, and that all comes from the developing world, and most of it comes from, I think, five or eight countries in Africa. And so those that are in energy poverty, I don't believe we're going

18:41 to be happy with status quo. They're going to be looking for that higher level standard of living attainment. And so you have this kind of ambient upward pressure on overall energy demand. And I

18:54 think because of the scale, the scalability and the transportability, we just have to be more pragmatic about how we're going to meet all that demand, all that new demand that's coming on top of

19:07 the base demand. And it's getting harder and harder to find and maintain production as well. So yeah, we don't want 120 million barrel a day world right around the corner. But well, I think it's

19:18 essential that the Western world's answer to the developing world is not let them eat cake. But that's what we're doing right now. Hey, y'all all need to drive electric vehicles. I know they cost

19:31 more. Hey, y'all have to be in energy poverty because we already got ours. If that's gonna be our answer. that is not going to lead to a happy world.

19:41 Well, if you read the tea leaves on the IEA, they say that even countries like China, we'll see a significant slowdown in their appetite for crude before the end of the decade. That's laughable

19:54 with India becoming the main driver for oil growth. So they're throwing India under the bus, which is interesting because this week, the India's power minister came out accusing the West of

20:06 hypocrisy over energy transition. Raj Kumar Singh is accusing us for the hypocrisy for aggressively phasing out coal while doing the same for

20:19 fossil fuels. And then he went on and said something that I thought was super funny. He says he criticized rich countries for not fulfilling their pledge to provide a hundred billion per year in

20:28 climate finance to developing nations So it almost seems like the IEA is sort of mouthpiece of these rich industrialized countries. And it's a war between those that have already made it to those

20:41 that want to make it. And that it's real interesting as you see this play out. Well, and I don't know if you guys and not to be outdone, the UN Secretary, Secretary General Guterres was out last

20:52 week saying on Thursday that it wasn't a fossil fuel emissions issue. It was fossil fuels themselves and getting a little bit more strident on actually keeping it in the ground. Coal oil, natural

21:06 gas. It's not fossil fuel emissions, it's fossil fuels themselves. What the fuck does that actually mean? Well, it's not you, it's me from breaking up. That just reminded me, I

21:23 think Chuck and I talked about this once, that even if we completely figured out direct air capture and we developed the technology to have neutral carbon emissions. People would still hate fossil

21:36 fuels just because it's fossil fuels. It doesn't even matter if we can negate all the negative side effects or second order effects. It's just if it's fossil fuels, it's fossil fuels. So you hear

21:49 a quote like that and he's like, I can't even have fossil fuels emissions. It's fossil fuels themselves. It's not only the

21:55 UN and we talk about Asia, but let's go over to Europe for a minute. The Poland has been trying to extend subsidies for their coal power plants until 2028. And they're doing that 'cause they wanna

22:08 study energy supply when other sources are unavailable. But ministers from Luxembourg, Spain, and Germany have been saying, That's bullshit. So this is a massive,

22:22 it's not a war, but there's a lot of debate happening over the haves and haves-nots. Poland's just trying to be smart. I don't know what the rest of Europe is thinking in Germany, Luxembourg, and

22:33 Spain. What are they thinking? turning off subsidies because they're already struggling with power. Yeah, Poland's sitting there with Russia next door and they're not gonna wanna be without power.

22:46 Well, I was gonna say, I mean, if you just look at historic events over the last 100 to 150 years, I mean, there's a reason that Poland wants to be smart about everything because history hasn't

22:56 typically been kind to them based on where they sit on a geographical

23:04 premise So yeah, I'm sure they like, yeah, we want security energy because we don't want to get screwed by Russia. We don't want to get screwed by Germany. You know, Marquis brought up a point

23:14 talking about population growth and tag you guys on this on Twitter. But there was a newspaper headline that said kids are cute, but they're not really eco-friendly. And

23:26 this is why I hate the term decarbonization. Like I know a lot of people don't use the term decarbonization. you know, they use it just in terms of talking about clean energy or energy transition.

23:38 But I was like, you can take decarbonization to the extreme and to the point of where it's like, hey, we just can't have humans here. And I don't know that sounds like conspiracy theorists, tin

23:48 foil hat, like Kirk is saying earlier, but I mean, there's newspaper headlines right there suggesting it. I love it because my kids will sit there and I've said this a million times on podcast,

23:58 but it bears repeating on the off chance one of my kids actually listens to this one day But you know, my kids will have the greatest life on the planet because of hydrocarbons. And you ask them

24:09 tomorrow, hey, you want to vote to get rid of it? Oh, yeah, we got to get rid of hydrocarbons. They do it tomorrow. I'm going to come back and say, it's y'all. Y'all aren't eco friendly. The

24:18 children. It's not us.

24:23 Yeah. I bet Chuck, your kids would never vote to eliminate hydrocarbons if you kept your plane. Yeah, that's true. Now, poor

24:33 Chuck could have kept at poor Chuck now. Can't have an electric plane. I love airplane shock. By the way, your podcast was so good. Ah, thanks, man. You had your

24:44 priest on, and he called you airplane shock, or - Airplane rich. Our plane rich. Yeah, you were plane rich. Airplane rich is like

24:54 your airplane rich. Well, you were kind, and I appreciate the note, you son. It was actually pretty cool I had dinner with dad last night for Father's Day, and dad said, Hey, I watched that

25:03 last a couple of nights ago, and I actually learned stuff about you. So anyway. That's pretty cool. That was cool. So, Shell, what's your - So did I, Chuck. Oh, thanks. So, Kirk, what's

25:12 your guy at Shell doing now?

25:16 I think he's being a baller. I mean, I'm like, he's dropping mics left and right, but basically, he's come out and said he's gonna maintain stable oil and gas production while raising the bar for

25:27 investments low-carbon alternatives. He plans to distribute 40 of its cash flows to investors, increase their natural gas business, which I told one of your good friends, Chuck, that that was

25:41 gonna be an absolute thing to bet on, and prioritize steady oil flows for the next decade. So, I mean, what Lyle is saying is, if renewables are gonna come into our portfolio, the bar is higher.

25:57 Because when I was working at Shell, our bar was pretty damn low. Nothing I was for pretty damn low. I'm a high bar guy, but I would just say overall, of course, you should all believe that.

26:12 But

26:14 he did also hint at kind of where they're maybe focusing on the transition. He says, Well, renewable energy options like wind and solar have lower returns on investment compared to fossil fuels by

26:24 far, by the way Promising markets include biofuels, green hydrogen, in carbon capture and storage. So expect maybe Shell to play in those areas, similar to where Exxon has been very strategic if

26:37 they're gonna make investments, they're gonna do it in areas that

26:42 are strategic for their business, but also, I got a question. I got a question. That's where you click. So Shell CEO saying, Hey, we are going to continue to invest in oil and gas. We're gonna

26:55 raise the bar for renewables Does that sound like toxic petromasculinity to you?

27:03 Damn dude. Damn.

27:07 I think you should tweet that because I'm already in trouble by their guys inside Shell because I said that Shell's going to move to Houston. So,

27:18 I think we should tweet that. That's hilarious. Yeah, he is a total petromasculine guy. Not disclosing anything that I was sworn to secrecy on, but I was in a group that might've found some of

27:30 your comments, interesting Kirk, and I let slip your whole thing about screw, shell, plaza in Houston. Let's go shell, plaza in New Orleans. They found that very funny.

27:43 Do you mean I have a lot of haters out there? No, not haters, not haters at all. I didn't mean to imply that. I was just trying to be careful on who I was talking to. The theme of the weekend,

27:52 are you stuck in the middle? All I hear from this conversation is that people listen to BDE and are taking our considerations. So, that's all I hear. Kirk is talking about RFK on Joe Rogan. I

28:06 mean, we're getting to that level here pretty soon, I assume. All right, the guy might be crazy. RFK may be crazy and all that, but I mean, given what happened to his dad and his uncle, I

28:17 actually find him relatively sane given that. Ah, it's actually a good point. You know, I never thought about that. That's a good point. I mean, you literally have had governmental commissions

28:28 trying to determine whether the Cubans, the Mafia, or anyone killed your uncle, your dad. Sir, Sir Ham, Sir Ham may have had help. I mean, that would drive me a little crazy and make me be

28:41 kind of skeptical of government and institutions. No, 100. I actually didn't think about that. He has a condition in his throat that is degenerate or whatever the right medical phrase is. But he

28:55 sounds like he's shaky, but that's his mind is sharp. And if you actually listen to him, whether you agree with his politics or not, he has sound arguments. I find him relatively very interesting.

29:09 You know, the thing I hate about this whole saga that's going on on Twitter for the Joe Rogan podcast is the Dr. Peter, is this the last name, Hoots or?

29:19 I don't know how to pronounce it. He's over at Texas Children's Hospital. No, no, that's why I was getting it. I'm like, I'm just embarrassed that he lives here Thank you, Senator. I'm

29:28 embarrassed. He's going to go on Rogan and do this instead of Chuck Yates needs a job. That's where the real debate should be. Well, he's resisting pretty mightily and not engaging with conspiracy

29:40 theorists is really the pushback and there's the predictable ad hominem attacks. But there's a parallel in the climate debate that started with individual appearances on Joe Rogan One was Andrew

29:54 Dessler, who is head of the climate department at Texas AM and Dr. Stephen Coonan, who wrote Unsettled and has been all over the spectrum in terms of his place and the whole climate scientific

30:10 debate and analysis. And they were really talking past one another on their separate podcast with Rogan. They ended up, and I think I've centered around you guys, they ended up in a long form

30:22 style debate with the Soho Forum last September and that debate is. quite illuminating. And it was, you know, a presentation of facts and evidence and opinion followed by a rebuttal. I heard

30:36 Kinsford ripped him apart. What's that? I said, I heard Kinsford ripped him apart. Yeah, sorry. Yeah. Yeah, he did. I mean, if you, if you look at the, Koonen came from a place in talking

30:48 about data and conclusions straight from the IPCC, which is widely believed, at least in executive summary, to be pointing to this kind of red alert type of posture. But if you dig down and you

31:03 look at some of the evidence and take a very really evidence and scientifically rigorous approach to understanding the data in the report, it's not that at all. And so he was confronted with the

31:19 other side arguing on the basis of a very emotionally charged rolling stone headlines, which are literally part of the slides that presented as facts and evidence in this debate. And so that long

31:34 form was, if you can stand to watch the whole thing, just because of the length of it, is I think the right approach where we get out and have a full opportunity to make the case on either side.

31:54 Yeah, you know, I feel for like Joe Rogan, Joe Rogan gets a ton of hate. He's like, oh, he has this podcast and you bring certain people on, but to your point, it's like, you get two people

32:04 of opposing views on different shows and they're talking past each other. Joe Rogan says, Hey, let's get both of you on a show together and can actually - We'll go till we're done. Yeah, we're

32:15 not 30-minute crossfire on CNN. Yeah, we'll get out all right here. And I just like, it doesn't matter Vaccines or we're talking about climate change in this episode. So it's definitely getting

32:28 flagged for false information on YouTube, but it's like, why can't we have scientific conversations back and forth debate and, you know, a doctor or any climate change scientist says, no, I

32:44 won't get on there and debate a conspiracy theorist when it's not conspiracy theories Well, one of history's greatest physicists, theoretical physicists, Richard Feynman, who was actually a junior

32:58 physicist on the Manhattan Project, one of my favorite quotes of his, and he's got a lot of them. There's actually a Twitter thread that you can follow that is really based in Feynman's quotes, is

33:11 science is the,

33:15 how is it put, is the belief in the ignorance of experts? Oh, that's good stuff. 'Cause the whole thing that bothers me about whether we're talking vaccines, climate change, I have always

33:30 believed that the observation of the event, anyone on the planet ought to be able to see, ie, the apple fell out of the tree. Now, we need Newton to explain, there's this concept called gravity.

33:42 He's the scientist, he explains why, but we all see the apple fall. We ought to be able to see all of the data and see the trends Maybe science needs to explain why those trends are happening, but

33:56 I've yet to kind of see the, and I need to dig in, so this is some ignorance on my part, but I actually want to see the underlying data that says, okay, this is climate change. 'Cause all we

34:06 ever hear is the science has settled, but I'm like, just show me the actual data. Yeah, you know what's funny. 'Cause at the end of the day. That's right, Chuck. At the end of the day, we're

34:14 talking over the last 150 years, the temperature's up a degree and a half, maybe two degrees, But in 1850, that's the lowest the temperature. Ben in the last 10, 000 years, you know, this

34:26 happens in all scientific communities, though, even in oil and gas. You have society, petroleum engineers, and there's this gentleman. I can't remember his name. I'd have to ask John over there.

34:36 He's told me all about the story, but he has he has thesis that goes against

34:45 conventional wisdom or

34:49 that's based around something around fracking. Anyways, he's written 40 white papers on it, and it goes against one of the chair's core beliefs. They just ostracize this guy, like got rid of him.

35:04 I mean, he stands up at SP events. He's like, Why are you also pressing me? Why are you making me quiet? There's just no forum for debate on a very scientific matter. These are people that are

35:16 all an oil and gas and quote unquote on the same team, but it becomes this. You have the layers of bureaucracy and for lack of a better term, it's just a dick measuring contest between these guys

35:30 and they just suppress any real scientific debate or conversations and - Well, sonically it has a lot to do with the adage of follow the money. Yeah. No, that's exactly. Yeah you But. right

35:42 exactly That's. absolutely, know, it's funny 'cause actually -

35:48 If you're not, you know, if you're passionate about a position and really believe that the best information and the best data wins, I have a comment or on my Twitter profile that says good data is

36:03 the antidote for bias, right? So it filters out as much bias as possible, but they're still unknowns. And you certainly have intuitive leans because of your life experience and your frame of

36:18 reference But if you're passionate about one. on something that is hugely scientific, like climate change or vaccines, et cetera.

36:30 And you are unwilling to go through that educational process to really resolve in your own mind. And we're not all expert scientists, right? But a consideration and a translation of the information

36:48 in a debate format, if you're not willing to put in that time, that's on you, right? Yeah, but if you think about it in many ways, people, it's like politics, you know, most people's politics

37:03 are very similar to their parents. And there's not a whole lot of logic there. It just happens. You know, Dr. Houghts, our professor Houghts, the vaccine doctor that Rogan's talking about, His

37:17 whole job is about making vaccines. So when you ask him, do you think everyone needs a vaccine? He says, yes, that's how he makes money. That's, it's whole life. It's like asking a barber if

37:27 you need a haircut. The answer's always yes. Well, I got in trouble during my, during my painful divorce. I asked a therapist, some crazy quack was like, you know, your children need therapy.

37:40 And I said, well, let me ask you a question. Does everyone need therapy? She goes, yes, I was like, well, there you go. It's your, you're, you're paid to give therapy. Of course you think

37:50 everyone needs therapy. It's a similar to climate. We were meeting, especially a lot of these young kids who have been indoctrinated early. As Joe Rogan said, I was, you know, I saw one of his

38:01 clips. He's like, look, I just took it. You know, I saw a few headlines. I just assumed this is the facts until I started researching about the vaccine. But when you talk to people about

38:10 climate, It's not really data that. They don't want to have the debate because it's all, they've already made up their mind that everything is bad, fossil fuels bad, it's all about climate. And

38:22 that's their mission in life. And it's like, how are you going to unwind that? How are you going to tell someone that, hey, everything you ever believed is wrong, start over. It's really hard

38:32 for people to do. Yeah I, heard this story and I think it was on this show and the show is about physics. And anyways, it goes back into the ancient, astronomers like Galileo. And anyways,

38:46 before Galileo, there was some astronomer and he actually didn't have a way to observe this, but he suggested that maybe there were multiple universes and anyways, the church stoned him to death

38:57 for suggesting that. And then Galileo comes along and actually observes these things. And anyways, he discovers this constellation of stars and he's poor, he's a scientist, but he has no way of

39:10 making money. And he ends up telling the king that, hey, there's these three stars that are put in the sky after you and your brothers. And anyways, long story short, it ends up getting put on a

39:21 salary. And this is how he started getting his science and research funded, but it's funny. You go back to those times and he still saw the same thing about

39:33 just research being incentivized and misaligned due to financial reasons But do you think that that doesn't happen today is pretty ignorant? Well, the close here on actual observation and then

39:49 looking at the data to get better, Joe Montana, arguably the greatest quarterback that ever lived, certainly in the discussion, top five. Man, you had so much great timing, so pretty. Yeah,

40:04 no, I mean, arguably the greatest Steve Maryucci became the offensive coordinator at the 49ers.

40:12 sat down with Joe and said, okay, let's talk about how we're gonna play next season. They went through, Joe laid out, here's what I like to do, here's the best. Maryucci came back

40:25 a week later with film and of the plays that Joe liked to run, if you eliminated two out of the top four, those were where 85 of his interceptions were And so Steve just had had the video. He said,

40:44 Hey, we called this play here, interception. You know, and all that eliminated it. The next, so they eliminated those two plays. That's all they did, eliminated those two plays the next year,

40:55 Montana through four interceptions. And that was it. That's so funny because - And he didn't know. You know, Chuck, that sounds like a great idea, but don't do that in relationship. This is

41:04 completely unrelated, but my favorite take during the whole work from home craze

41:11 people that were working from home saying that they were more productive. I'm like productive and who's terms? Like productive for you as an individual because you get to do all the things that you

41:18 do. 'Cause you're longer done. Yeah, yeah, we're productive for the company. And so anyways, funny to hear that straight about Joe Montana. Y'all talk Stevie Nicks. I actually skipped the UK

41:30 point because of the girlfriend's British and I don't want to get bashed. What about Stevie Nicks? These two. What are we talking about Stevie Nicks? These two have a Stevie Nicks love affair, so.

41:42 No finger in the way 'cause Holly started it. This is Mark, this is all Mark, but I do have some data about Stevie Nicks. Okay. All right, guys. I don't know where we're goin' to this shop. I

41:53 don't wanna hear it. I'll set it up. Yeah, why don't Stevie Nicks come up? Yeah, thank you, Mark. Well, you were eventually on the thread, but I think it was Saturday night, tweeted out Why

42:06 is, who is the hottest? female singer and why is it a living in John, you know, just a kind of a baiting is and you saw Greece. We go down a few replies and the next comment was something about

42:25 the ethereal nature of her voice. And so I felt compelled to respond with I'll see your ethereal and raise you 10 X ethereals and posted a

42:37 little video clip of Stevie with her TV nicks and a concert once. Yeah. And then then I learned that you were a big fan and she's not. So you're a fan of Stevie Nicks Kirk. I do like Stevie Nicks.

42:51 So I was at my dad took me to a Tom Petty concert one time and Stevie Nicks just randomly came out. And so I got to I got to see her and you'd hate me because I had like no appreciation for it like I

43:04 don't really.

43:06 I know, like one Stevie Nancy. Stevie wanted to be a heartbreaker. Leaving Fleetwood Mac for the heartbreakers. So do you really have data on Stevie? Did you come prepared to this conversation

43:17 with some data, Kirk? I mean, I want to be a little bit prepared, but you know that she was inducted in the Hall of Fame twice. I didn't know that. She was first as a member of Fleetwood Mac in

43:29 1998 and then as a solo artist in 2019. Yeah, that's pretty baller I mean, that's pretty good. I'm frustrated because a lot of my favorite 80s hairband guys will never get into the Hall of Fame

43:42 because most 80s the hate voters Fame of Hall

43:46 hairband guys. Yeah. But Stevie Nix has been in twice. Who's at the top of your list from 80s hairbands that should go on? I'm actually surprised that Chuck didn't know that fact. I did not know

43:56 that fact on Stevie Nix. My favorite Stevie Nix before we go to 80s hairband, Kirk loves.

44:04 My favorite. Stevie Nicks trivia is that Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks are dating, they break up. So he writes the song You Can Go Your Own Way, which is a little backhanded slap at Stevie

44:16 made her play it every night in concert with Fleetwood Mac. I always thought that was kind of cool. All right. We're 40 minutes in the show. Kirk, if you want another one other twist. It's

44:26 ironic that Mike Campbell after Tom Petty died ended up playing with Fleetwood Mac. So there you go. Full circle

44:34 All right, lay it lay it on your top three hair man hair hair band from the 80s and then we'll we'll. That's how I know. Well, I'm not going to lay it on. I'm just going to say that Def Leppard

44:44 never made it into the Hall of Fame. And I think Def Leppard deserves even one. Even if you're one. All right. You want to make that our first induction to the B Hall of Fame Def Leppard 100 we're

44:51 going to get followed by the

44:58 scorpions and I will die on this hill Cinderella was the legitimate. air as a blues band to the rolling stones. Unfortunately, they got marketed as a hair band. So they got swept out when Pearl

45:11 Jam and Nirvana showed up and the rolling stones just outlived everyone they thought. But Cinderella is that good of a blues band. I'm sorry, guys. I was born damn shocked. I was born in December

45:22 of 89. So I just have nothing to add to this conversation. You can go your own way

45:28 All right, guys. Karik, appreciate you being with us from Nantucket. If you all enjoyed this show, make sure to share it with a friend, share it on LinkedIn, share it on Twitter, and we will

45:39 catch you all next week. Peace.